Posted On:11/06/2009 8:43am
Style: BJJ, Wing Chun
I apologize in advance if this is not appropriate for this subforum. If that's the case, would a moderator please move to a more appropriate location?
I've been playing a lot with using my gi to choke my opponent from mount, side control and on top in half guard. It's a wicked good time.
That being said, I'm being told that sometimes it is more of a neck crank than a choke...though I'm having a lot of trouble as I'm trying to hit it to make the distinction.
Any tips on how I might be able to tell that I'm applying a crank versus a choke when often the attack is being made in a way that I can't really see? When I start hitting it my intention is for it to be a choke.
This happens most often when I am in side control, thread my gi under the head and then over on top of the neck, and while still holding it I switch to north-south, grab the collar w/ my other hand and switch back to side control. There are a few variations on this choke...but again, sometimes it ends up being a choke, sometimes a crank.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Certified Personal Trainer and Drinker of Coffee
Posted On:11/06/2009 11:53am
Style: SAMBO/BJJ/Judo and others
It usually only takes a slight adjustment to turn a choke into a crank. Generally speaking if the person's neck is being moved towards their end Range of Motion or has pressure against the cervical spine rather then the carotid arteries or windpipe then it becomes a crank. You are probably moving people's necks when your applying a gi choke.
To illustrate, if you notice a person's neck doing any of these then you are probably turning it into a crank:
Forward Neck Flexion
Backward Neck Extension
Lateral Neck Flexion
Diagonal Neck Flexion
Neck Rotation plus Extension
(Sorry I could not find a picture of this. Try to imagine you have a RNC then you crossface him and pull his neck backwards.)
Hope that helps.
Posted On:11/06/2009 12:50pm
That does help. Thank you.
Posted On:11/25/2009 9:31pm
But, excepting the fact that it's a douche move in training, if the crank looks like a choke it IS a choke generally speaking.
I've been "choked" on my teeth and face and cranked to tap by many "chokes" over the years. Hell, my sidechoke is usually a crank due to my fat arms unless you have an ostrich neck.
It's legit in most competitions as long as you're going for a legit choke and not blatantly cranking. Apply pressure gently and you'll get the tap 'cause there's nothing that says DQ for neck-cranking like an opponent with a herniated disc in his neck...
Injury Waiting To Happen
Posted On:11/26/2009 1:08am
Style: Snatch Wrestling
Its like when it's a choke it's a choke, when it's a crank it coulda been a choke, so it's still a choke cause it coulda been a crank, you know, and I'm sorry cause it could be a crank, it could be a crank, but if it's a choke...then the ref won't know the difference.
If you're cranking too much, you're doing it wrong anyway, cause a good crank should make for a quick tap, ie not enough time to get caught cheating.
Posted On:11/26/2009 8:07pm
Style: Judo & BJJ
You can see examples of neckcranks from Judo (yes, Judo), here: http://judoinfo.com/kubiwaza.htm Not legal in competition.
Posted On:11/27/2009 8:25am
Thanks again all for the help.
Posted On:12/05/2009 5:42pm
Less technical, but still useful rule of thumb: if the person being neck cranked can't say the words "Neck crank!" to complain, then its a choke.
Posted On:12/06/2009 2:13am
What if they gurgle them? I did that at a tourney and the guy had to let go of the choke.
Posted On:12/07/2009 3:30am
Style: Baboo Baby
What I'd do is have people try to do the same move on you and see if it feels like a choke or a crank.
What you'll also get is some people with bad necks will feel as if it's a crank even if technically it is a choke and would only be a choke on someone with no pre-existing neck injury.
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