226247 Bullies, 3747 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 34
Page 1 of 4 1 234 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Mtripp is offline
    Mtripp's Avatar

    Choked out by Gene Lebell

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Grand Blanc, MI
    Posts
    3,276

    Posted On:
    11/03/2009 3:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Where is the line for when Bullshido becomes Fraud?

    Ok, before I begin, yes this is kinda personal. Yes, I am angry. But, this is a serious question.

    How do we define "fraud?"

    If someone trains in a place like Juko-lie, and they get their 10th dan or I guess he gives out 12th dans too, whatever, he does have the paper. Does that make them a fraud, or something else?

    I want to "out" a major mess here in Michigan, but I need to understand terms before I do.

    IMNTBHO, if someone claims Judo rank they got from Juko-lie, they have to know they are full of crap, and ergo are a fraud. How do you guys see it?

    Background: Friend of mine, legit bad man, is at a gun show. Guy is there selling training tapes and pushing his "jujitsu" lessons. Mind you I promoted this guy to Shodan about 18 years ago, then then took off with Juko-lie and I haven't heard from him again.

    He tells my friend he is a 10th dan, which means he outranks me, and, quote "Well Mark is a sport Judo guy, he really doesn't know that much about jujitsu." WTF!!! Anything this guy knows I taught him, of course my friend says "Well, you got your black belt from him so what does that say about you?"

    So, what is a fraud?
  2. danniboi07 is online now
    danniboi07's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    626, California
    Posts
    1,250

    Posted On:
    11/03/2009 4:03pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Starting and training in Juko-lie and eventually obtaining a high rank, later opening his own school: Not fraud, but major major Bullshido.

    Not training at all or minimal training and claiming complete mastery: Fraud.
    "The pedant is he who finds it impossible to read criticism of himself without immediately reaching for his pen and replying to the effect that the accusation is a gross insult to his person. He is, in effect, a man unable to laugh at himself."Sigmund Freud, The Ego and the Id.

  3. BadUglyMagic is offline
    BadUglyMagic's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    393

    Posted On:
    11/03/2009 4:05pm


     Style: slackerjitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    How do we define "fraud?"

    If someone trains in a place like Juko-lie, and they get their 10th dan or I guess he gives out 12th dans too, whatever, he does have the paper. Does that make them a fraud, or something else?

    Mind you I promoted this guy to Shodan about 18 years ago, then then took off with Juko-lie.

    He tells my friend he is a 10th dan, which means he outranks me, and, quote "Well Mark is a sport Judo guy, he really doesn't know that much about jujitsu." WTF!!! Anything this guy knows I taught him, of course my friend says "Well, you got your black belt from him so what does that say about you?"

    So, what is a fraud?

    If I understand correctly; 18 years ago you awarded him shodan, he went with a thing called Juko-lie, He has been awarded a 10th dan in Juko-lie, he has the certificate in Juko-lie, (is the juko-lie a jujitsu thing?), he disrespected you.

    Answer is gong-sau.

    Not fraud in Juko-lie.

    Is he claiming BB in jits or something else?

    edit: danniboi7 beat me to the post
  4. Larus marinus is offline
    Larus marinus's Avatar

    Banzai Buddy

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    NW England
    Posts
    3,066

    Posted On:
    11/03/2009 4:42pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Nothing - yet

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If the man seriously threw himself into this Juko-lie thing after he left you and legitimately (as far as he's concerned) worked his way up to 10th Dan, then I wouldn't say that it's fraud, as such.

    The guy may actually think that he has the real deadly and has now far, far surpassed his former teacher...

    If the above is indeed the case - and his skills turn out *not* to be at the level you'd expect of a 10th Dan, then this makes him guilty of spending 18 years of his life training in a MA that teaches inferior budo and promotes people too quickly.
    Last edited by Larus marinus; 11/03/2009 4:59pm at .
  5. Ming Loyalist is offline
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar

    solves problems with violence

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    4,338

    Posted On:
    11/03/2009 5:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    is he claiming a 10th dan in juko-kai or in judo (certified *by* juko-kai)???

    if i have my facts straight, the answer to that question is at the heart of the matter.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  6. Mtripp is offline
    Mtripp's Avatar

    Choked out by Gene Lebell

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Grand Blanc, MI
    Posts
    3,276

    Posted On:
    11/03/2009 6:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, he is claiming ranks in several arts, all with Juko-kai (which I call Juko-lie look them up here) papers.

    Jujitsu - 10th dan; Traditional Judo - I think 7th or 8th dan.

    But, and this is key, there is no training. You go to a clinic once a year and learn a few bull crap moves; but you pay for your promotions along the way. There are no "secret temple sessions" where the real deadly is taught. People just do their own thing, from book or video, and get ranked as they pay for it.

    And PHD's etc.

    Juko Kai has been exposed here, my point is this butt clown KNOWS he is full of crap and I could hand him his head anytime I wish... but it seems more Bullshido than Fraud; save in HIS mind.
  7. Ka-Bar is offline
    Ka-Bar's Avatar

    is a Godd*mn Federale!

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    1,924

    Posted On:
    11/03/2009 9:58pm

    supporting member
     Style: Clinchology: Judo & MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mr. Tripp-

    You've done your due diligence here. You've outed him and his organization in full detail to an organization (us) that legitimately cares about fraud & legitimacy in martial arts. Those that don't care about actually learning to fight will ignore what you have already said and anything you might eventually say. Those who do care have already heard you out, or will eventually find your posts.

    The people he trains won't learn anything. The people you train will become badasses. There's not much more you can do and you should sleep well at night knowing that.

    Rudy Reyes > Bear Grylls
  8. kanegs is offline

    Lightweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Just north of Pittsburgh, PA USA
    Posts
    102

    Posted On:
    11/03/2009 11:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: Se-Jong TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am not a lawyer, but IMHO...

    If he mis-represents himself regarding a rank which he knows he didn't earn and uses said rank for personal gain, then he is a fraud.

    If he thinks he earned a rank, but was deceived and really didn't,
    OR he earned a rank in a useless art, but teaches it though it is effective,
    OR earned an honorary rank but doesn't teach that style and only uses it to pad his resume,
    OR brags about his fake rank but doesn't use it for personal gain,

    then he is guilty of bullshido.
  9. Mtripp is offline
    Mtripp's Avatar

    Choked out by Gene Lebell

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Grand Blanc, MI
    Posts
    3,276

    Posted On:
    11/04/2009 1:02am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kinda how I see it too. Rod is the fraud. Most of the people under him are bullshido.

    I wanted some other voices; well other than the usual ones in my head, to make sure I was on the right path.
  10. Cy Q. Faunce is offline
    Cy Q. Faunce's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    3,577

    Posted On:
    11/04/2009 2:37am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Finding You

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The legal definition of fraud is well-summarized on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud


    It has a number of elements to it, some of which are hard to prove. I tend to avoid the term in investigation writeups, preferring instead to refer to falsehoods or statements not supported by the evidence available to the investigation.

    I)f you're dealing with someone litigious, tread carefully when you use that word.
Page 1 of 4 1 234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.