11/01/2009 8:17pm, #1
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
BJJ and Luta Livre. From a guy who did both
I have been reading many post in many MA forums about BJJ and Luta livre (it is not free olympic wrestling nor soutamerican pro wresling ) , about how them are similar and rivals. I started in luta livre about 3 years ago.Im am a southamerican Guy , from a country bordering Brazil.
My conversion to BJJ : Why did I leave Luta Livre
I have been grappling for about 2 years in a Style called Luta Livre . It is basically submission wrestling , with any submission legal ( including heel hook , and any neck crank legal for ALL belts and events).
I joined this place because I wanted to learn MMA , and I thought that ground in MMA was ALWAYS BJJ . I learned that , those grapplers used another stile very very similar , and most of the guys were nice , plus the gym has weights ( included with the grappling fee ) and was 8 blocks from home. I decided to stay , and I loved it. I learned a lot. But some things got me mad .
1 ) The level of the school was very good , some of the guys of my gym won the Budokan cup ( in Rio , Brasil) , it’s the equivalent of a BJJ world cup. I am a fair athlete , but I am not a prodigy , and in that school , the main teacher ( the only BB , who was a fellow student of marco Ruas under same teacher ) just pay attention to the elite grapplers. I passed a belt test -something before a blue belt- , payed the fee . The instructor NEVER gave me the certificate ( It was no gi , so the diploma is the belt that you dont wear ). I told him several times , and the said ´´ I have to bring it , we are out of paper , blah blah ´´ . He didn’t like me , I knew it .That was the reason . Why ? because once , I tapped one of his instructors with a heel hook , and broke his leg - no intention of course -
2) The main instructor teaches at night , and at the morning we had a brown belt . This brown belt was one of the champs of the world cup. A ground genius , and a nice guy. I enjoyed his classes a lot . But this guy had to work in another job to earn his bread , so he couldn’t teach the morning class . This class was over , and the school opened an afternoon class , with some purple belt . This guy was a lazy dude. One day , nobody assisted the class , but me . He said , hey nobody is hear , I have to go…. What the hell ??? I was there , and he could grapple with me and teach me . NO…he just left.
3) The main instructor was always talking about respect , and he held the class in a semi military way. You had to use some special words to address him , and we have to bow at the beginning of the training . This respect , disappeared when he talked about BJJ . He has several books where he says that BJJ is a great art , but he always attack the kimono use in the books . In the class , he trashed BJJ , saying that it was ´´girly ´´ to forbid neck cranks and slamming , saying that pulling guard was an action of bjj of the same nature , and so . And when he enters a forum of martial arts , he talks about the respect ,and his friendship with local BJJ masters….OMG…..
This guy is legit , he is also a legit muay thai instructor ,and a wrestling coach , he is a hard working guy and believes in his art , but he is full of hate towards BJJ , a hate that he imported from brasil in the 80s ( with earlier origins ) and now , doesnt even exists . BJJ does not care about its poor cousin
4) Use of the guard : In luta livre , you learn to use the guard , but always as a last resource , the last defense. Half guard is used to avoid the mount ( you dont want to be there )
Why I think that Bjj is Better?
Because , Bjj has much more people working inside . Because , you can do Gi ,and no Gi (sub wrestling) . So….there is not any problem with the GI ! You always can remove it , but if you practice no gi , you can´t use the clothe in a self defense situation . Of course in no gi a guy who always do No gi , will have some advantage over a pure gi guy, but the gi guy can always remove it , and adapt QUICKLY.
Now , I enjoy being part of the BJJ world . It´s fun , and I get along with the instructors . A 2dn degree and a plain BB told me that I have potential , and the pay attention to my game and try to help me improve all the time.
Bjj does not hate luta livre , but many LL guys hates BJJ ...Luta livre should convert to no gi BJJ , because that it what it is. They want to keep their name for pride.
Now , I am a proud , happy BJJ four stripe white belt , and when I fight without gi I feel more confortable .
http://www.brazilianlutalivre.com/ Look at this site , in the english section under IBLLU . They say rickson gracie refused to fight Joao ricardo , and that BJJ offered to join bjj with high ranks .It sounds like trash
11/02/2009 9:27am, #2
WHAT THE HELL? This was one long ass, broken english, nonsensical crazy mofo peice of writing
11/02/2009 9:34am, #3
i understood it, he's Brazilian and has better english than many of our posters. The post was obviously meant as an introduction for noobietown so lighten up."Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
11/02/2009 10:19am, #4
Yeah good post
I still rather picture Lutre Livre as this though
11/02/2009 11:20am, #5
- Join Date
- Jul 2003
Lucha Libre is not he same as Luta Livre.
11/02/2009 1:29pm, #6
It's all greek to me
11/02/2009 2:07pm, #7
Good post, and welcome.
I wonder how much of that is the style versus how much is just a badly managed school.
11/02/2009 2:48pm, #8
MMAMickey : WHAT THE HELL? This was one long ass, broken english, nonsensical crazy mofo peice of writing
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
The purpose of my post , was to make the feud between BJJ and Luta livre clearer . I shoud have presented myself first in newbietown , my fault. I have readen the guidelines , but I tought that this was more about Bjj and its twin syle , not about me .
I am not here to fight , just to make a point , and to give some data about a topic I have been reading in many forums , many times with misconceptions and wrong ideas about what luta livre is. I am not a Guru of any kind , just a guy who trained 2 years in LL , 1 in BJJ , and had some Folk wrestling in HS.
Some points .
1) Like Shawarma said , Lucha libre is not equal to Luta livre . Lucha Libre is free fight in spanish . Luta Livre is Free fight in portuguse. They sound similar , and have the same roots in ancient Latin , because those languages are offspring of the latter .
When you say LUCHA LIBRE in spanish , you mean
a) Pro wrestling , Like Hulk Hogan.
B) Olympic or collegiate wrestling ( serious thing )
When you say LUTA LIVRE In Portuguese you mean.
a) A style of Sub wrestling that resembles BJJ with no gi ( some people uses the Term ´´ Luta livre esportiva ´´- sportive free fighting or ´luta dura ´´-Hard Wrestling -
b) Olympic or collegiate wrestling ( many people call it Luta olimpica , to avoid confusion )
The submission Luta livre (a) , is a mix of catch wrestling subs , with Olympic wrestling takedowns , and No gi judo pins and subs.
At the beginning , LL was very close to catch , but with time and physical closeness of BJJ and luta livre schools (and the Judo core in both) , the distance between both styles was reduced.
Luta livre guys tend to say they created they style from nothing, and never give credit to JUDO or catch ( like many Old shool Bjj guys ).But , for example , you will see the same Kesa Katame in LL , BJJ , or judo. Luta livre also uses the same word for subs ( ie : Kimura , americana , etc)
Thanks for your time.
11/02/2009 2:53pm, #9
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
Thank you for your information, C0nan. Luta Livre is increasingly an unknown art.
11/02/2009 2:57pm, #10