BJJ and Luta Livre. From a guy who did both

**C0nan** · Posted On: 11/01/2009 7:17pm

I have been reading many post in many MA forums about BJJ and Luta livre (it is not free olympic wrestling nor soutamerican pro wresling ) , about how them are similar and rivals. I started in luta livre about 3 years ago.Im am a southamerican Guy , from a country bordering Brazil.

My conversion to BJJ : Why did I leave Luta Livre

First Part

I have been grappling for about 2 years in a Style called Luta Livre . It is basically submission wrestling , with any submission legal ( including heel hook , and any neck crank legal for ALL belts and events).
I joined this place because I wanted to learn MMA , and I thought that ground in MMA was ALWAYS BJJ . I learned that , those grapplers used another stile very very similar , and most of the guys were nice , plus the gym has weights ( included with the grappling fee ) and was 8 blocks from home. I decided to stay , and I loved it. I learned a lot. But some things got me mad .

1 ) The level of the school was very good , some of the guys of my gym won the Budokan cup ( in Rio , Brasil) , it’s the equivalent of a BJJ world cup. I am a fair athlete , but I am not a prodigy , and in that school , the main teacher ( the only BB , who was a fellow student of marco Ruas under same teacher ) just pay attention to the elite grapplers. I passed a belt test -something before a blue belt- , payed the fee . The instructor NEVER gave me the certificate ( It was no gi , so the diploma is the belt that you dont wear ). I told him several times , and the said ´´ I have to bring it , we are out of paper , blah blah ´´ . He didn’t like me , I knew it .That was the reason . Why ? because once , I tapped one of his instructors with a heel hook , and broke his leg - no intention of course -

2) The main instructor teaches at night , and at the morning we had a brown belt . This brown belt was one of the champs of the world cup. A ground genius , and a nice guy. I enjoyed his classes a lot . But this guy had to work in another job to earn his bread , so he couldn’t teach the morning class . This class was over , and the school opened an afternoon class , with some purple belt . This guy was a lazy dude. One day , nobody assisted the class , but me . He said , hey nobody is hear , I have to go…. What the hell ??? I was there , and he could grapple with me and teach me . NO…he just left.

3) The main instructor was always talking about respect , and he held the class in a semi military way. You had to use some special words to address him , and we have to bow at the beginning of the training . This respect , disappeared when he talked about BJJ . He has several books where he says that BJJ is a great art , but he always attack the kimono use in the books . In the class , he trashed BJJ , saying that it was ´´girly ´´ to forbid neck cranks and slamming , saying that pulling guard was an action of bjj of the same nature , and so . And when he enters a forum of martial arts , he talks about the respect ,and his friendship with local BJJ masters….OMG…..

This guy is legit , he is also a legit muay thai instructor ,and a wrestling coach , he is a hard working guy and believes in his art , but he is full of hate towards BJJ , a hate that he imported from brasil in the 80s ( with earlier origins ) and now , doesnt even exists . BJJ does not care about its poor cousin

4) Use of the guard : In luta livre , you learn to use the guard , but always as a last resource , the last defense. Half guard is used to avoid the mount ( you dont want to be there )

SECOND PART

Why I think that Bjj is Better?

Because , Bjj has much more people working inside . Because , you can do Gi ,and no Gi (sub wrestling) . So….there is not any problem with the GI ! You always can remove it , but if you practice no gi , you can´t use the clothe in a self defense situation . Of course in no gi a guy who always do No gi , will have some advantage over a pure gi guy, but the gi guy can always remove it , and adapt QUICKLY.

Now , I enjoy being part of the BJJ world . It´s fun , and I get along with the instructors . A 2dn degree and a plain BB told me that I have potential , and the pay attention to my game and try to help me improve all the time.
Bjj does not hate luta livre , but many LL guys hates BJJ ...Luta livre should convert to no gi BJJ , because that it what it is. They want to keep their name for pride.

Now , I am a proud , happy BJJ four stripe white belt , and when I fight without gi I feel more confortable .

http://www.brazilianlutalivre.com/ Look at this site , in the english section under IBLLU . They say rickson gracie refused to fight Joao ricardo , and that BJJ offered to join bjj with high ranks .It sounds like trash

**MMAMickey** · Posted On: 11/02/2009 8:27am

WHAT THE HELL? This was one long ass, broken english, nonsensical crazy mofo peice of writing

**Sang** · Posted On: 11/02/2009 8:34am

i understood it, he's Brazilian and has better english than many of our posters. The post was obviously meant as an introduction for noobietown so lighten up.

**Goju - Joe** · Posted On: 11/02/2009 9:19am

Yeah good post

I still rather picture Lutre Livre as this though

**Shawarma** · Posted On: 11/02/2009 10:20am

Lucha Libre is not he same as Luta Livre.

**Goju - Joe** · Posted On: 11/02/2009 12:29pm

It's all greek to me

**HappyOldGuy** · Posted On: 11/02/2009 1:07pm

Good post, and welcome.

I wonder how much of that is the style versus how much is just a badly managed school.

**C0nan** · Posted On: 11/02/2009 1:48pm

MMAMickey : WHAT THE HELL? This was one long ass, broken english, nonsensical crazy mofo peice of writing

Sorry sir , I am not an English scholar like you .I didn´t want to offend your royal English. English is my fourth language , not my mother tongue .Don´t worry , I am not going to live in England , but I have been there four tourism some weeks ago , and people generally is very nice and polite . You may be and exception in a great country.

The purpose of my post , was to make the feud between BJJ and Luta livre clearer . I shoud have presented myself first in newbietown , my fault. I have readen the guidelines , but I tought that this was more about Bjj and its twin syle , not about me .
I am not here to fight , just to make a point , and to give some data about a topic I have been reading in many forums , many times with misconceptions and wrong ideas about what luta livre is. I am not a Guru of any kind , just a guy who trained 2 years in LL , 1 in BJJ , and had some Folk wrestling in HS.

Some points .

1) Like Shawarma said , Lucha libre is not equal to Luta livre . Lucha Libre is free fight in spanish . Luta Livre is Free fight in portuguse. They sound similar , and have the same roots in ancient Latin , because those languages are offspring of the latter .

When you say LUCHA LIBRE in spanish , you mean

a) Pro wrestling , Like Hulk Hogan.
B) Olympic or collegiate wrestling ( serious thing )

When you say LUTA LIVRE In Portuguese you mean.

a) A style of Sub wrestling that resembles BJJ with no gi ( some people uses the Term ´´ Luta livre esportiva ´´- sportive free fighting or ´luta dura ´´-Hard Wrestling -
b) Olympic or collegiate wrestling ( many people call it Luta olimpica , to avoid confusion )

The submission Luta livre (a) , is a mix of catch wrestling subs , with Olympic wrestling takedowns , and No gi judo pins and subs.
At the beginning , LL was very close to catch , but with time and physical closeness of BJJ and luta livre schools (and the Judo core in both) , the distance between both styles was reduced.
Luta livre guys tend to say they created they style from nothing, and never give credit to JUDO or catch ( like many Old shool Bjj guys ).But , for example , you will see the same Kesa Katame in LL , BJJ , or judo. Luta livre also uses the same word for subs ( ie : Kimura , americana , etc)

Thanks for your time.