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  1. lifetime is offline

    Perpetually Punchdrunk

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2005 8:59pm


     Style: TKD, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by taikwido
    Who has more credibility ??? The TKD stylist who reflexively defends Tae Kwon Do, or the guy who realizes that what he's done has serious wholes and flaws in it.

    I find your knowledge shockingly low. And it's generally why I have such a LOW opinion of MOST of my fellow TKD practitioners. If you were in the US, I'd go to a throwdown just to spar you.

    Oh well I guess. Let me know when we're in the states so we can settle things.


    More substantially, I will point out that the great Bill Wallace used JUST THREE kicks. Front side, Front round, Front hook. Front leg is quicker, when done properly, it has ALL the power you need. Those pivoting on their foot while the kick is in the air will not have this power. This is the problem with 90% of the kickers I see.


    The "hogo grab" is NOT a clinch. Because that's a "breakup" situation. It's a stalling tactic, not an effort to initiate a hold, takedown, or throw.


    You go ON and ON about all your setup with your footwork and kicks. Most of that will go 100% OUT the window when you deal with someone who prefers the inside game. The ONLY reason you can sustain this footwork with a TKD player is that THEY TOO prefer the outside game.


    Now why do I say that TKD sparring rules need to be augmented ??? Because the rules in place actually condition their athletes to do REALLY STUPID things like turning their back and not guarding their head. In addition because punching is so devalued in TKD, TKD practitioners tend to have little sense for blocking.


    I have seen this OVER, and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER again. I have no idea whether you are the exception. But I do know that what you do in a self defense situation is CONDITIONED not REASONED. If you train with your hands down, you will tend to spar with your hands down.

    I went from a WTF to a Chung Do Kwan school and those blackbelts kept beating on me until I conditioned myself to keep my hands up (though I was NEVER as bad as those guys who hold their hands down limply).

    Futhermore, the way that TKD sparring is executed makes TKD look SILLY And STUPID, and it has me saying I know Karate instead of TKD because my WTF brethren do things that are SO INCREDIBLY STUPID.

    I was once in the EXACT same position as you are arguing on internet forums about the effectiveness of TKD. Over time, I have been taught and seen how I was wrong as you are now. Even over that STUPID axe kick!!!! You got a hammer, you go looking for nails. Then you're pounding in screws.

    If YOU are so convinced about how you'd do against a good boxer, I suggest you go signup at a local boxing school and put some money down on a K-1 style match with one of the top guys at the gym. You'll probably find that MOST of your kicks will bounce off the guy, you won't be able to land your punches and you'll get pummelled once the guy gets past your perimeter.

    As far as low kicks go, the same hip/leg strength/coordination necessary to execute high kicks will translate into a low kick. Yes, you do have to specifically practice them.
    Read the rest of the posts that I've made and that others have responded to dumbass.

    Reflexively defending TKD? Not recognising the "wholes" (sic)? What are you fucking stupid?


    READ, where I listed out the numerous holes and flaws in my WTF game.

    READ, where I said I sparred with my hands up. Ask Liuzg, he'll tell you that I didn't stand with my hands by my waist.

    ASK Liuzg where I turned my back to avoid a punch.

    ASK Liuzg what my footwork was like. Liuzg was coming in with punches, and he was playing a closer game than I was used to. Like you suggested, my footwork should have been completely shot to ****. While my experience with Kyokushin rules is very very limited, ASK him if I managed to sustain my footwork, even if I didn't do too well in anything else.

    And as for your challenge for me to prove myself against a puncher:

    NAME ME ONE FUCKING INSTANCE, WHERE I CLAIMED MY SKILLS WOULD ALLOW ME TO BEAT UP A BOXER. I OPENLY STATED, SEVERAL TIMES, THAT AGAINST A PUNCHER I DID NOT DO WELL.

    Yes, I lost, and I'm sure Liuzg could have done me some damage if he wasn't such a nice guy. And although I didn't play a solid WTF game that day, for whatever reason, I still acknowledge that my training didn't help very much in dealing with low kicks and punches. I've been objective about this the whole time; I've not made excuses for myself, nor statements that I cannot back up.

    You're not only full of ****, you're also semi-illiterate. OR, you're a practitioner of very Selective Reading. I can back up what I say, because I actually put my money where my mouth is. I went and sparred Liuzg, and had an eye-opener. So far, you're talking **** about WTF without proving anything yourself.


    Fucking learn to read.

    Who has more credibility Taikwido?

    The guy who's been shooting his mouth off when he knows jack ****?

    Or the guy that's actually done ONLY WTF, had the 'nads to show up and spar with a Kyokushin practitioner I'd never met before, AND fully acknowledges the weaknesses in the system?

    note: liu, sorry to drag you into this, but I'm trying to prove a point.
  2. liuzg150181 is offline
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    Bonta-kun

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2005 10:16pm


     Style: fumoffu!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To save taikwido's trouble from posting to ask,i think it is better to answer it myself.......
    Quote Originally Posted by lifetime
    Read the rest of the posts that I've made and that others have responded to dumbass.

    Reflexively defending TKD? Not recognising the "wholes" (sic)? What are you fucking stupid?


    READ, where I listed out the numerous holes and flaws in my WTF game.
    I dont tkd rules,so these are really out of my scope to comment on it.
    READ, where I said I sparred with my hands up. Ask Liuzg, he'll tell you that I didn't stand with my hands by my waist.
    Yup,he kept his hands up~~~
    His defense against punches to torso is boxing style btw.

    ASK Liuzg where I turned my back to avoid a punch.
    Though i have heard it is a valid tkd technique,he did not use it during our sparring.
    ASK Liuzg what my footwork was like. Liuzg was coming in with punches, and he was playing a closer game than I was used to. Like you suggested, my footwork should have been completely shot to ****. While my experience with Kyokushin rules is very very limited, ASK him if I managed to sustain my footwork, even if I didn't do too well in anything else.
    lifetime has good nimble footwork,keep it well during sparring.
    And as for your challenge for me to prove myself against a puncher:

    NAME ME ONE FUCKING INSTANCE, WHERE I CLAIMED MY SKILLS WOULD ALLOW ME TO BEAT UP A BOXER. I OPENLY STATED, SEVERAL TIMES, THAT AGAINST A PUNCHER I DID NOT DO WELL.
    Too much thing for taikwido to read......... :5blindfol
    Yes, I lost, and I'm sure Liuzg could have done me some damage if he wasn't such a nice guy. And although I didn't play a solid WTF game that day, for whatever reason, I still acknowledge that my training didn't help very much in dealing with low kicks and punches. I've been objective about this the whole time; I've not made excuses for myself, nor statements that I cannot back up.
    It is a friendly first meeting and a friendly sparring session,not some gladiator-style fighting in Roman Colesseum or prize-fighting~~~

    You're not only full of ****, you're also semi-illiterate. OR, you're a practitioner of very Selective Reading. I can back up what I say, because I actually put my money where my mouth is. I went and sparred Liuzg, and had an eye-opener. So far, you're talking **** about WTF without proving anything yourself.


    Fucking learn to read.
    You will meet more of these people one day here or other forum,so dont get too boil-blooded too much~~~
    Who has more credibility Taikwido?

    The guy who's been shooting his mouth off when he knows jack ****?

    Or the guy that's actually done ONLY WTF, had the 'nads to show up and spar with a Kyokushin practitioner I'd never met before, AND fully acknowledges the weaknesses in the system?
    Honestly i respect kyokushin fighters,but formally i dont consider myself kyokushin practitioner for reasons below:
    1.)I dont formally train in kyokushin,as in i dont wear their dogi and take their grading.However,i did learn and remember the basic kihon(basic drills),the fighting techniques and taikyoku 1,2 & 3(kata).


    2.)I joined kyokushin 4 mths ago,trained only 2 mths there,because it is informal MA club in the uni and the "head"(not the instructor) of this club went to Thailand 1 mth to learn MT,after this the club closed down.

    So what exactly am i?More towards sanda and MT,though now mostly sanda.However i dont really consider myself pure sanda or MT,but rather a MMA-wannabe who tends towards striking component(with throws in sanda as supplement)
    note: liu, sorry to drag you into this, but I'm trying to prove a point.
    NP~~~
    PS:Wanna train in SMARS this coming Sunday evening? I might not be able to go there but i will inform a friend of mine to show you there.
    "People think that judo is only unarmed combat - but you are never unarmed when you can hit someone with a planet. "
    - Uncyclopedia entry on Judo
  3. lifetime is offline

    Perpetually Punchdrunk

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2005 10:27pm


     Style: TKD, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris
    Turning your back is actually illegal. Using a backside kick as evasion is legal, but if you just turn away from blows, not only will you be penalized, but you'll be kicked in the back. See, if someone nails you while you're running, their penalty is generally nullified because your illegal act caused it.
    Exactly right. I don't know where people get the idea that TKD practitioners turn their backs every time an attack comes in. A lot of MMA fighters turn away when they're stunned/dazed, even in Pride/UFC, and it usually heralds a KO. The EXACT same thing happens in TKD, but this is the only instance where people seem to notice it.

    Btw, thanks Liu, have PMed you.
  4. liuzg150181 is offline
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    Bonta-kun

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2005 10:30pm


     Style: fumoffu!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh okay,someone in Taiwanese MA forum who claimed to be tkd practitioner said that actually,though he said good tkdist would do it fast enough to evade an attack~~~
    Thx for clarifying from both of you btw.
    "People think that judo is only unarmed combat - but you are never unarmed when you can hit someone with a planet. "
    - Uncyclopedia entry on Judo
  5. lifetime is offline

    Perpetually Punchdrunk

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2005 10:43pm


     Style: TKD, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The idea is this. Say you're doing a back kick. You turn your back to your opponent, kick the leg out, and then rotate back to your original position. What people see when TKD practitioners seem to turn their backs is different. In essence, you turn your back to your opponent first, kick the leg out behind you, and then step forward before turning to face him again.

    The reasoning for this is that if you do a back kick, miss, and then rotate on the spot back to your start position, you're extremely vulnerable to a counter attack, because you're stationary, turning, and unable to retaliate. If you turn your back, kick, but move away before turning back to face your opponent, it's a faster kick, and SOME people say it leaves you safer. A lot of MMA kickers do this also, because it leaves them safer vs. a takedown. They do a spinning back kick forward, but instead of completing the rotation, drop the leg, and move back.

    This is the only time when turning your back seems to be acceptable in TKD; maybe Osiris can explain it better than I can. When someone just turns around and runs away, that's just fucking stupid. When you do that back kick the furthest you'll go is one step before you turn around to face your opponent.
  6. liuzg150181 is offline
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    Bonta-kun

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2005 10:46pm


     Style: fumoffu!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just one question,when doing back kick(or back thrust),why must you rotate it back to the original position?
    "People think that judo is only unarmed combat - but you are never unarmed when you can hit someone with a planet. "
    - Uncyclopedia entry on Judo
  7. lifetime is offline

    Perpetually Punchdrunk

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2005 10:49pm


     Style: TKD, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You don't. It's just that a lot of people do because it's hard to stop the turning momentum. It's a bad habit. Normally if you connect with the back kick it's not a big deal because you'll push the guy away from you, and rotating to original stance isn't very risky. But when you miss, it's dangerous.
  8. liuzg150181 is offline
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    Bonta-kun

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2005 10:51pm


     Style: fumoffu!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh okay......though from the ones in kyokushin and sanda it is always landing it to the front~~~
    "People think that judo is only unarmed combat - but you are never unarmed when you can hit someone with a planet. "
    - Uncyclopedia entry on Judo
  9. lifetime is offline

    Perpetually Punchdrunk

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2005 11:00pm


     Style: TKD, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Knee-up block? I tend to do that a lot because although my back kick isn't very accurate it's very low risk for me. I back kick, and if I miss I keep the kicking leg up to jam the other guy's kicks.

    In relation to the thread though, against a guy coming in with punches it's not such a safe technique. Better to regain balance and start again.
  10. crueall is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2005 11:32am


     Style: TKD, Muay Thai, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nuts to this . I wanna know, who would win in this dream matchup: Monkey vs Robot

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