"Shovel" Concept

**nomamao** · Posted On: 10/31/2009 6:32pm

When done properly, the shovel actually forces your upper body to lean back a bit. Not good, in my opinion.

But, I imagine your grappling class must be fun and worth something, so cudos to you and your students on that.

**1point2** · Posted On: 10/31/2009 10:20pm

Chinaboxer, that was twelve minutes of you talking.

Two minutes of you showing us would be more effective. You have a camera, I assume you have 2 sets of sparring gear, so have 2 students gear up and show us what you're talking about in free sparring. Point out where they use the shovel concept and the dead lift body mechanics in their sparring.

Is this your facility? It seems very well equipped, what with all the heavy bags.

**nomamao** · Posted On: 11/01/2009 6:06am

Yeah, I'd like to see two people sparring: one using the shovel approach and one not using wing chun at all. That way it should be easier to see the differences/advantages.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 11/01/2009 9:46am

Originally Posted by 1point2

Chinaboxer, that was twelve minutes of you talking.

Two minutes of you showing us would be more effective. You have a camera, I assume you have 2 sets of sparring gear, so have 2 students gear up and show us what you're talking about in free sparring. Point out where they use the shovel concept and the dead lift body mechanics in their sparring.

No BS MMA and Martial Arts - View Single Post - Importance of Body Structure

No BS MMA and Martial Arts - View Single Post - Importance of Body Structure

**Ronin.74** · Posted On: 11/01/2009 10:13am

Congrats on your student receiving 2nd place at the grappling tourney, more CMAists need to start getting involved in grappling.

But I disagree with your thoughts on the hip being forward as a valid stance to defend the takedown and from what I saw in the video of your student's grappling tournament everytime an opponent went for a takedown he defended it by moving his hips back.

**shaolin pimp** · Posted On: 11/01/2009 1:38pm

I like chinaboxer. but I have to agree with nomamao it would be much better if you could show a more practical video, or do a description video talking, then do a demo of the talking video. I don't know about defending takedowns with hip forward makes, if it's better, but he's right about the power from a wing chun perspective, but if your in mma and wing chun is your base striking, you need boxing style power as well heel off! plus for movement, you couldn't rely on pure wing chun footwork.

**MMAMickey** · Posted On: 11/01/2009 1:43pm

Originally Posted by chinaboxer

i think many of you forget that i studied Muay Thai and Kickboxing with top notch instructors for ten years before wing chun.

I know you like analogies so I've provided one.

it's like you started off as a sprinter and then intentionally put yourself in a wheelchair

**selfcritical** · Posted On: 11/01/2009 2:37pm

With regard to the deadlift (which was an excellent video, btw, covered all the main points from Power to the People), I think you have something backwards.

Putting your weight on your heels braces you against being PULLED FORWARD(ie, the direction the weight will pull you during the deadlift), not against being PUSHED back (which is what you are claiming the most recent structure video). If you are being pressured from the front, and are pushing back rather than yielding in some way, the strongest way to push laterally in front of you is with triple extension(hips/knees/ankle), which will require that the heel comes up.

**Nefron** · Posted On: 11/01/2009 3:56pm

Why don't you post a video of this working in sparring?

**selfcritical** · Posted On: 11/01/2009 4:22pm

To be fair, several types of it "working" in sparring wouldn't neccesarily make the point. He could tag a guy several times with it in sparring, and i'd still think he's wrong in this instance. It's a power/body mechanics question, so at least some of it will be determined by "How hard can you hit some stuff using this mechanic"