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  1. #11
    I'd like to leave this world like I came into it: Screaming, naked & covered in someone else's blood supporting member
    Asriel's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't judge your progress on who you can tap out and/or who taps you out. That is the number 1 thing you are doing wrong right now.

    Are the guys you used to train with muscling through everything and forcing chokes that aren't actually on properly into cranks? If so then they're not learning Jiu Jitsu. Did you reverse any positions? Escape? Pull off any nice sweeps? These are the small victories you should take away with you that mark your progress.

    Keeping a tally of who you can tap is meaningless. Let me tell you a story:

    The other night at training, a brand new White Belt was allowed to train with us. When it was my turn to spar with me him, I slowed down and was letting him move through positions. He got on my back and I was turtling - not trying to escape - just letting him work. His arm ended up in my mouth. He then tried to apply an RNC full force and split my entire bottom lip against my teeth. Tap? I fucking screamed. When he pulled his arm out his gi was covered in blood.

    A silly thing to do but all n00bs make mistakes like that at the beginning. After we started rolling again I put him in a Triangle and he wouldn't tap. Time was called just as I was starting to think he may go to sleep rather than submit.

    This guy is crippling his progress due to some crazy notion that tapping someone and/or not tapping yourself means you're progressing. In his case, the opposite couldn't be more true with an extra side dish of dickishness.

    Don't be that dick. Stop caring about tapping people and just enjoy learning Jiu Jitsu.

    *Gets off Soap Box*
    " The reason elite level MMAists don't fight with aikido is the same reason elite level swimmers don't swim with their lips." - Virus

    " I shocked him with my skills on the ice becuase Wing Chun is great for hockey fighting." - 'Sifu' Milt Wallace

    "Besides, as you might already know (from Virus, for example) - there's only 1 wing chun and it sucks big time" - Tonuzaba

    "Even when I'm promising mayhem and butt-chicanery, I'm generally posting with a smile on my face." - Sochin101

    "That said, if he blocked my hip on a drop nage, I would extend my leg into a drop tai Otoshi and slam him so hard his parents would die." - MTripp


  2. #12
    M1K3's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OP, you hit part of the problem right on the head. At your old school you learned one technique and then rolled. At the new school you are learning a lot of techniques.

    You used to have a toolbox with only a few tools so it was real easy to grab the right one, now you have the big friggen tool box with lots of tools and you aren't sure which one to grab or even how to use it correctly.

    Part of the learning process is developing your own game. As you advance you will find that there are certain tools you will make yours and you will begin to use them without even thinking about it. As time passes you will add more tools to that set you can use with skill.

    Also try to focus on your positional game. Don't worry about subs. Remember its position, position, position, submission. Less focus on submission and more on position.

    Hope this helps.

  3. #13
    WhiteShark's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why are you rolling with a purple belt all the time? How many other people are in your Gracie class?

  4. #14
    slideyfoot's Avatar
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    Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would recommend three things: learn how to relax in sparring, ask lots of questions and try to focus on improving your technique rather than worrying about who taps who. There is a really good thread on that last point, which I'd urge you to read.

    If you've got a longer attention span, I babble about the frustration question at length in the FAQ.

  5. #15

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by M1K3 View Post
    OP, you hit part of the problem right on the head. At your old school you learned one technique and then rolled. At the new school you are learning a lot of techniques.

    You used to have a toolbox with only a few tools so it was real easy to grab the right one, now you have the big friggen tool box with lots of tools and you aren't sure which one to grab or even how to use it correctly.

    Part of the learning process is developing your own game. As you advance you will find that there are certain tools you will make yours and you will begin to use them without even thinking about it. As time passes you will add more tools to that set you can use with skill.

    Also try to focus on your positional game. Don't worry about subs. Remember its position, position, position, submission. Less focus on submission and more on position.

    Hope this helps.
    This is true. My old set of skills was very small and I knew exactly what to do as soon as I went to that position. My old skill set was fine for holding my own at the ATA school. However, when I went to the Gracie school I quickly found that my old techniques were useless against their students and nearly all of them set me up to be swept. So I'm at a point where I'm trying to throw out my old techniques and adopt these new ones. So I guess in a way I'm back to square 1.

  6. #16

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keeze View Post
    This is true. My old set of skills was very small and I knew exactly what to do as soon as I went to that position. My old skill set was fine for holding my own at the ATA school. However, when I went to the Gracie school I quickly found that my old techniques were useless against their students and nearly all of them set me up to be swept. So I'm at a point where I'm trying to throw out my old techniques and adopt these new ones. So I guess in a way I'm back to square 1.
    Stop right there. Don't LOSE the techniques or think that they are wrong (although you will want to cover the finer details of them with your instructor). What you're finding is that the students knew the counter to your approach to those techniques. So you need to learn the finer details of those techniques, different flows and approaches to them etc. Combinations, misdirection.

    Do you know that a blue and a black belt know generally the same techniques? The difference is in timing, and the ton of fine details that will make or break a submission, sweep, counter etc.

    Don't think that you need to toss out all of your BJJ and start over simply because you're hitting a wall. What you need is to look at the overall game now, how you put all of those together and when.

  7. #17
    M1K3's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keeze View Post
    This is true. My old set of skills was very small and I knew exactly what to do as soon as I went to that position. My old skill set was fine for holding my own at the ATA school. However, when I went to the Gracie school I quickly found that my old techniques were useless against their students and nearly all of them set me up to be swept. So I'm at a point where I'm trying to throw out my old techniques and adopt these new ones. So I guess in a way I'm back to square 1.
    One of the things that helped me most was something I read from Helio about how he never fights to win, he fights not to lose. This really helped my game alot. At 6'1'', 250lbs and 55 yo I knew I was going to be the slowest guy on the mat, it didn't matter who I was rolling with. So I build my game around the roll not to lose idea. I worked my positions, balance, grip fighting and being calm. Instead of attacking I waited for my opponent to make a mistake.

    Now this will probably not be a good game plan for you but the concept of taking your time and keeping good balance and position will help your game.

    The funny thing was I got more subs when I was cautious than when I was aggressive because a lot of people will start to get reckless trying to set up their attacks if you don't give them any good openings.

    Be patient and good luck.

  8. #18
    1point2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1K3 View Post
    One of the things that helped me most was something I read from Helio about how he never fights to win, he fights not to lose.
    Holy cow. I am now using this as the root of the overarching (and overgeneralized, not-always-true) difference that Dave Camarillo talks about between judo and BJJ.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates

  9. #19
    M1K3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    Holy cow. I am now using this as the root of the overarching (and overgeneralized, not-always-true) difference that Dave Camarillo talks about between judo and BJJ.
    ?????

  10. #20
    1point2's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry for the derail, I thought it was interesting.

    Dave Camarillo (elite-level judo competitor, BJJ black belt) often speaks in broad generalizations about judo being attribute-driven, explosive, overwhelming and direct, whereas BJJ is more laid-back in its strategy, and relies on superior technique winning out in the end.
    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/da...e-bjj-1018848/

    Disclaimer: Obviously this is not true in all cases, it's not a blanket assertion that Judo is X while BJJ is Y. I'm just saying that Helio's statement is impressive in how it states the BJJ strategy in strikingly similar terms to how Dave Camarillo describes.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates

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