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  1. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2004 8:59am

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     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Cross training

    I can understand training in different MA:
    Karate and judo
    Jujutsu and Muay Thai
    Taiji and needle point
    Xingi and Turkish oil wrestling.

    But, on a serious note, I don't understand those with LIMITED time training in non-related MA conditioning.

    Let me expand on my waist line for a minute.

    You have only 5 hours a week to train for example.
    Strength Training is a must, most realise this by now.
    Your MA training is a must.
    But why waste PRECIOUS workout time on running, swimming, cycling, tennis, badminton, full contact pick up sticks ??

    Now, I understand if you like to run or swim, fine, I am NOT talking about that, I am talking about doing NON-SPECIFIC conditioning for the MA.

    Do swimmers box? NO
    Do runners grapple? NO
    Do cyclists hit the heavy bag? NO
    WHY? to quote a triathlete friend of mine: "what the **** for?"

    The cross over conditioning you get from NON sports related endevours are minimal at best, which means you do get SOME cross over, but NOT as much as if you would have spent the SAME amount of time doing the ACTUAL MA.

    You do NOT get more heavy bag endurance by cycling for an hour, you DO get more by INCREASING your bag time.

    That is my rant.
  2. Phoenix is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/06/2004 1:29pm

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     Style: JKD Concepts, Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Once again, ronin69, you are correct.
    "Onward we stagger, and if the tanks come, may God help the tanks." - Col. William O. Darby
  3. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2004 1:33pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ronin,
    Not everyone is training for fight-specific skills. Some are trying to acquire a broader skill set. For example, soldiering would require swimming, running, etc. I don't think of myself as training for fights specifically, but rather for a broad range of possibilities and obstacles that might arise.

    In every single one of your examples, you refer to competitive athletes.
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  4. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2004 1:36pm

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     Style: Shi Ja Quan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Indeed I do, good point.
    I have always trained LIKE an athlete, maybe that is why.
  5. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2004 1:39pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Obviously, unless you're trying to lose weight, you don't need to be doing stationary cycling. I continue to think of myself as training for soldiering. So I swim and run, sometimes I trail run with weights. If I had the opportunity, I would also climb.

    In no way does this refute the sense of your post, but some people might not understand the underlying concept of specificity.
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  6. virtual_mantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/06/2004 1:47pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're right BUT I think running is a great fitness base.

    Something you can build all of your sport specific training on.

    I'm not a grappler but I'm assuming that you need short bursts of explosive movement in your legs. A great way to cross train for this would be NOT to go out and jog 10 miles but maybe a light warm up and then run some hill repeats and then a cool down. In addition to your regular training.

    you can go out for a run if you don't have a lot of time or just to break up your routine if it gets stale.
  7. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2004 2:12pm

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     Style: Shi Ja Quan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I understand what you guys are saying and I agree.
    I wall climb ( as an example) for fun as many times as I can.
    But with limited time for training, I see too many people asking what they should do to increase their cardio for their MA and they always ask if they should do more RUNNING or skipping rope, when it makes all the sense to do more MA !!!
    The benefits you get from cros training are great for variety.
    People need to understand that if your goals are MA specific, your training MUST be MA.

    I love to swim too, I need to move to Bermuda !!
  8. virtual_mantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/06/2004 3:30pm

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     Style: 7 Star

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree, limited time, you should focus on MA. But if you're gonna map out a training routine or periodization schedule then I think running has it's place.
  9. Nid is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2004 3:51pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Improving one's performance in multiple activities requires that one perform them. Anything extra and not-exercise related viz., different activites, or perhaps the same activity done in a way unrelated to the intended demonstration, say long hours of laps for swimmers who sprint...

    " ... that's simply what these kinds of athletes have always done and now they're just doing more of what they have always done. We also know that some of the rationale and concepts used to justify this approach such as developing an "aerobic base" or training every day to prevent "deconditioning" have no basis in reality. The term "aerobic base" has never been well-defined and does not appear to have a physiological rationale. We also know that deconditioning takes much longer than a mere day or two (many of the original studies on deconditioning involved confining people to bed rest, which is quite debilitating). Thus, there is absolutely no justification for daily training.


    Also, ever so slowly, the old paradigm of training is breaking down in some sports. Boxers used to, and many apparently still do, get up and jog in the middle of the night to do "road work". Jogging has almost nothing to do with the requirements of boxing, a sport revolving around shorter periods of highly intense activity. Jogging within this context is frankly just a misguided, ritualistic practice that can generally just contribute to overtraining. What seems required is some form of high intensity interval training (or just very intense sparring, to be very specific) lasting about the same time as a round.

    To be continued @...

    http://www.i-a-r-t.com/articles/athleticswinett.html
    Last edited by Nid; 2/06/2004 4:11pm at .
  10. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2004 4:05pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Correct,
    I once had a friend, marathon runner, try some heavy bag routines, for about a month 2 times a week.
    After that month he STILL could not last more than 4 rounds ( full out 3 min. rounds).
    While my other buddy who did NO running ( hates it with a passion) did 3 per week and was doing 6 rounds with ease.
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