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  1. ArrogantBastard is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/23/2009 12:51pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BadUglyMagic View Post
    May be I am missing something, don't political groups fight each other over the "issues" in order to get their solutions implemented to gain more power and benefits?
    Yes, also they use stalling tactics and vote against things regardless if it would be good for the people (if a lobbying group pays them enough).

    Do you mean Political faction (wiki'd) is a grouping of like-minded individuals, especially within a political organization, such as a political party, a trade union, or other group.

    Uh, going beyond the above definition, all human social activities have "faction".

    But it would be nice to know your definition of "faction".
    Yes.

    By defining the best interests as that of the majority, do you really mean to support genocide and international pillaging of natural resources?
    So you are saying that the majority of people in any given country support genocide and pillaging?
    By interest of the majority I mean what the majority supports on any given political/social issue that the government deals with.

    Help me out here, can you identify any government that exists(ed) that did not provide a greater share of benefit to those in positions of influence to those in power.? That includes those with any dynamic, say change of party in majority through elections.
    Providing the greater share of benefit to those in power =/= providing benefit to the majority.


    Where did democracy make these promises and are they in writing? Democracy is where very eligible person may vote. Democracy encourages factional struggles and games.
    The Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, Federalist No. 10, and Thomas Paine's Common Sense off the top of my head.

    As far as faction, democracy never discouraged it, but some of the prominent figures at the time around the American Revolution did specify problems with faction in democratic governments (see Federalist No. 10).

    You can also look at other forms of government. Read the Communist Manifesto and then look at how Communist countries have applied (or not applied) various aspects of it. Was the selective application of the Communist ideology for the good of the people or the ruling party?

    What are the countries making these gains and how do you define equal society?
    Over time, some countries have improved their system to be closer to the ideologies it was built on.
    For example, the US was build on the ideology of freedom, equality, and liberty for all, but slavery continued until the Civil War.

    Quote Originally Posted by creativo View Post
    Singapore has been your mainstay "real world" example for many posts now. I'll keep pointing and laughing, thank you. Of course you cannot find anything better, I understand that, so you have to stick with that one.

    Do you really think you can shroud your ideas in pretty words, to keep them removed to the reality of their application?

    "Prevent faction", sure. You just have to make sure people cannot form or sustain any "faction" that prevents the "strong executive branch" from "getting **** done". How interesting a theory.

    What it means is kill the opposers, jail them, move them out of the way of the guv'nment, spoil them of what they have. And, a few guys decide who the "opposers" are. Have the wealthiest and more powerful part of a nation, make even more money without worries except keeping the ruling party quiet. Are you an oligarch by chance? Or you just enjoy a lot public executions?

    Your theory can work out in a world of nietschian-superhero philosophers, not of humans.

    Of course I'm making assumptions. I assume you have no idea of how a Fascist government acts and the effect it has on a society. You just want to get **** done, and you have no idea of how your "concepts" would really translate in action.
    Maybe you're not an oligarch, but a chunner. Your only sparring vid is Singapore and you complain I'm not being nice to you.
    Awww, did my political beliefs hit a soft spot and get you butthurt? Since 90% of your arguments rely on personal attacks, I'll assume its because a) you are angry and/or b) you don't have actual arguments to debate the issue.

    Stop relying on these:
    http://www.unc.edu/depts/wcweb/handouts/fallacies.html
    Last edited by ArrogantBastard; 10/23/2009 1:00pm at .
  2. BadUglyMagic is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/23/2009 1:35pm


     Style: slackerjitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I could use a beer too.

    Flawed construction materials make poor foundations to build a house upon.

    The main issue your arguments have to overcome is the apparent belief that a "political system" may be improved to overcome human condition.

    What makes up any political system? People. People who may at times abandon selfish pursuits for a greater good and then go back to selfish pursuits.

    Germany, Rwanda, Armenia. The majority in power of those areas supported, effected and benefited from genocide. By your statements, you support genocide.

    Also, it will be easier for you to maintain a consistent position by only arguing one side of the fence.

    How about we stop the thread derail and get back to OP topic.

    Warfighting and the various support groups are jobs. Some are born to it, some do it for kicks, and other cause its what was available. It may be the most important one around when diplomacy fails, is spurned or someone just wants your national stuff.

    I appreciate the service every one who does it for whatever the reason.
  3. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/23/2009 4:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: ^_^

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyOldGuy View Post
    Only in the sense that taking an anarchists lunch money is appropriate.
    That's not anarchism. Anarchism is the rest of the table getting up and beating you with their metal lunchboxes like a Marilyn Manson song.


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  4. Robstafarian is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/23/2009 7:10pm


     Style: None

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey View Post
    Anarchism is the rest of the table getting up and beating you with their metal lunchboxes like a Marilyn Manson song.
    "Only if the group seated at the table is the Central Anarchist Council," countered Mr. Syme.
  5. creativo is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/23/2009 7:39pm


     Style: Judofitness

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ArrogantBastard,
    I'm not debating with you. I just wonder what real world example lat up your penchant for single-party systems.
  6. crappler is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/23/2009 8:06pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey View Post
    That's not anarchism. Anarchism is the rest of the table getting up and beating you with their metal lunchboxes like a Marilyn Manson song.
    Thread win.:pancakebu
    "We often joke -- and we really wish it were a joke -- that you will only encounter two basic problems with your 'self-defense' training.
    1) That it doesn't work
    2) That it does work"
    -Animal MacYoung
  7. crappler is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/23/2009 8:11pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rather than get involved in a debate about the saddening spectacle of man at variance with man, I have always held the belief that facing death with comrades at your side is likely to be one of the deepest bonding experiences known to man. It may be that what we really desire is not the social or political gains that come from war, but a brotherhood.

    We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
    Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
    This day shall gentle his condition;
    And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
    Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
    And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
    That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
    "We often joke -- and we really wish it were a joke -- that you will only encounter two basic problems with your 'self-defense' training.
    1) That it doesn't work
    2) That it does work"
    -Animal MacYoung
  8. ArrogantBastard is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2009 4:00pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree, we should get back on topic, but I would like to clarify this:

    Quote Originally Posted by BadUglyMagic View Post
    Germany, Rwanda, Armenia. The majority in power of those areas supported, effected and benefited from genocide. By your statements, you support genocide.
    I still don't understand how this makes me a supporter of genocide. The US was build on slave labor, does this mean everyone who adheres to democratic/republic ideologies are supporters of slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by creativo View Post
    ArrogantBastard,
    I'm not debating with you. I just wonder what real world example lat up your penchant for single-party systems.
    Dissatisfaction in current systems, specifically the dichotomy of two-party systems.



    On the subject of serving in the military, it is important to note the "myth of war". This myth perpetuates glorified images of war as a means of coping for those who have experienced it first hand and as a gateway to manhood (a right of passage) to those who have yet to experience it, whilst also providing nations with justification and a tool for mobilizing its nation's citizenry (recruitment and propaganda).

    This does not necessarily diminish the experiences of the individual, but rather it helps explain the phenomena of mass mobilization and the rise of the volunteer military.

    Further information on this theory can be found from John Keegan and George Mosse.
  9. vigilus is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/25/2009 3:24pm


     Style: Yoshinkan Aikido, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/c...entid=22396273

    136 killed in a blast with 2 car bombs. 600 Injured.

    Wonder how well that would go over on this side of the pond as a weekly occurrence.
    You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it
  10. Shalak1989 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/09/2010 4:15am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    erm... Hedgehogey... Ecclesiasties only has 12 chapters... where were you getting Chapter 22 from? May have been a mis-type, if it was could you reference where those verses are in the bible? Those ones in particular don't sound familiar to me. I am just talking about Eccl. not the other ones.
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