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  1. TxSanshou is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2009 9:36pm


     Style: Sanshou/bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dethklok View Post
    I have yet to have seen this video and thought it great. I fucking hate bitch's who pull guns to settle a dispute they otherwise could never back up. I am glad to see one of these little bitch's get the **** kicked out of them. If more people stood up to these little puke fucks then maybe we could live in a more civil society.
    I agree 100% the sad thing is when you fight someone with a gun especially a gang member you pretty much either chose to die then or later, because I would bet any kind of money that kid came back the next day with more people and a couple more guns.

    Thats just how gang members operate if someone wants to fight them one on one they use a weapon, if they lose despite using a weapon they come back with more people and more weapons makes me sick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foolish View Post
    Here are a few thoughts that I choose to share.


    4. It doesn't matter what MA you train or how advanced you think you are, if you try to attack a guy with a gun you are a dumbshit and should receive the same treatment as suggested in 2.
    .
    I disagree, if someone pulls a gun on you at point blank range and the opportunity to stop them from shooting you presents itself you would be a dumb **** to stand there and let them shoot you.

    I say this because if a gang member pulls a gun on you there is a 99% chance that they intend to kill you,if you wan't to lean on the 1% chance that they wont be my guest but the kid in the video apparently didn't like those odds.
  2. Foolish is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2009 10:27pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TxSanshou View Post
    I disagree, if someone pulls a gun on you at point blank range and the opportunity to stop them from shooting you presents itself you would be a dumb **** to stand there and let them shoot you.

    I say this because if a gang member pulls a gun on you there is a 99% chance that they intend to kill you,if you wan't to lean on the 1% chance that they wont be my guest but the kid in the video apparently didn't like those odds.
    I am guessing 99% is a random number that you pulled out of your ass. If it isn't please quote a source and I will grovel appropriately and beg forgiveness.

    Of the statistics I could find none address the intent of the attacker only the outcome of the encounter. In this particular case, if the gang member had intended to kill him rather than just intimidate him it would have been over in the first :30 seconds. Instead I see a lot of posturing and theatrics and intimidation. I suppose this could have been the 1% though.

    This first set of numbers I found do not specify handgun but only that the attacker had a firearm. The number shot is significantly less than 99% even if you add in the number that were just shot at.

    Offender use of firearms

    Of incidents involving offenders with firearms, victims -
    • were shot (3%)
    • were shot at but not hit (8%)
    • were struck with a firearm (4%)
    • were threatened with a firearm (72%)
    • did not describe offender's use of firearms (13%)
    this can be found here http://www.americanfirearms.org/statistics.php#16


    Another statement:

    For all those who were victimized in a robbery, sexual assault/rape/attempted rape, or aggravated assault, the following was true in 1992:
    1.4% homicide
    2.8% wounded
    95.8% NOT WOUNDED
    Said another way, of those victims of nonfatal violent crime who faced an assailant armed with a firearm, only 3% suffered gunshot wounds.

    source: http://www.wildelife.com/worth/stats/stats6.html

    Granted this second one comes from 1992, but I doubt the 95.8% not wounded has changed much.

    The last is from the US Dept. of Justice,

    How much crime involves firearms and gunshot wounds?

    The BJS National Crime Victimization
    Survey (NCVS) data for 1993-97 show
    that of the 19.2 million incidents of
    nonfatal violent crime, excluding simple
    assault --
    * 28% were committed with a firearm
    * 4% were committed with a firearm and resulted in injury
    * less than 1% resulted in gunshot wounds.

    This one comes from http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/fidc9397.txt

    As I mentioned above, this does not address the intent of the attacker which may change the numbers. The other thing to keep in mind is that when the data is broken down by race and/or socio-economic status the numbers do change but they never approach 99%.

    Forgot to mention, I still like cake.
    Last edited by Foolish; 10/14/2009 10:28pm at . Reason: needed to share my thoughts on cake.
  3. chaosexmachina is offline
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    Unexpected Elbow

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2009 10:54pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA/Pankration

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zaohu View Post
    Its been posted before. In fact, I think we have this in our Video Archives.

    I use this video as an argument of how wearing red pants gives one super powers.
    That's hilarious. I also have a video of a guy wearing red pants that wins a street fight.
    "The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good I get, I'll never be as good as a wall." - Mitch Hedberg

    El Guapo says dance!
  4. TxSanshou is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2009 11:18pm


     Style: Sanshou/bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolish View Post
    I am guessing 99% is a random number that you pulled out of your ass. If it isn't please quote a source and I will grovel appropriately and beg forgiveness.

    Of the statistics I could find none address the intent of the attacker only the outcome of the encounter. In this particular case, if the gang member had intended to kill him rather than just intimidate him it would have been over in the first :30 seconds. Instead I see a lot of posturing and theatrics and intimidation. I suppose this could have been the 1% though.

    This first set of numbers I found do not specify handgun but only that the attacker had a firearm. The number shot is significantly less than 99% even if you add in the number that were just shot at.

    Offender use of firearms

    Of incidents involving offenders with firearms, victims -
    • were shot (3%)
    • were shot at but not hit (8%)
    • were struck with a firearm (4%)
    • were threatened with a firearm (72%)
    • did not describe offender's use of firearms (13%)
    this can be found here http://www.americanfirearms.org/statistics.php#16


    Another statement:

    For all those who were victimized in a robbery, sexual assault/rape/attempted rape, or aggravated assault, the following was true in 1992:
    1.4% homicide
    2.8% wounded
    95.8% NOT WOUNDED
    Said another way, of those victims of nonfatal violent crime who faced an assailant armed with a firearm, only 3% suffered gunshot wounds.

    source: http://www.wildelife.com/worth/stats/stats6.html

    Granted this second one comes from 1992, but I doubt the 95.8% not wounded has changed much.

    The last is from the US Dept. of Justice,

    How much crime involves firearms and gunshot wounds?

    The BJS National Crime Victimization
    Survey (NCVS) data for 1993-97 show
    that of the 19.2 million incidents of
    nonfatal violent crime, excluding simple
    assault --
    * 28% were committed with a firearm
    * 4% were committed with a firearm and resulted in injury
    * less than 1% resulted in gunshot wounds.

    This one comes from http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/fidc9397.txt

    As I mentioned above, this does not address the intent of the attacker which may change the numbers. The other thing to keep in mind is that when the data is broken down by race and/or socio-economic status the numbers do change but they never approach 99%.

    Forgot to mention, I still like cake.
    Your entitled to your opinion and thats some very good research and stats you have there but noticed you researched the relation of gunshot wounds and crimes, not altercations involving gang members ,the gang banger was not trying to rape the skater (at least I hope not) or rob him.

    If you had researched how often gang members shoot people they get into altercations with you would have seen some different numbers. Youth Gangs and Violence Office of juvenile justice-"In Los Angeles, the proportion of gang-related homicides among youth involving firearms increased from 71 percent in 1979 to 95 percent in 1994, mainly because of the increased use of handguns, particularly semiautomatics"

    Granted this is from 94 and the rates have decreased since then, but from this we can deduce that in 95% of gang related homicides a fire arm of some sort was used, hence if a gang member pulled a gun on you it was extremely likely that he intended to kill you. This is a trend seen more in young gang members more so then adult gang members whos motives are usually burglary or rape, versus teen gang members who usually need to earn respect by killing people who try and disrespect them.

    So yeah I will admit that 99% was a number I pulled out of my ass but upon researching the stats we see that I was only off by 4%.
  5. Foolish is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2009 11:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TxSanshou View Post
    Your entitled to your opinion and thats some very good research and stats you have there but noticed you researched the relation of gunshot wounds and crimes, not altercations involving gang members ,the gang banger was not trying to rape the skater (at least I hope not) or rob him.

    If you had researched how often gang members shoot people they get into altercations with you would have seen some different numbers. Youth Gangs and Violence Office of juvenile justice-"In Los Angeles, the proportion of gang-related homicides among youth involving firearms increased from 71 percent in 1979 to 95 percent in 1994, mainly because of the increased use of handguns, particularly semiautomatics"

    Granted this is from 94 and the rates have decreased since then, but from this we can deduce that in 95% of gang related homicides a fire arm of some sort was used, hence if a gang member pulled a gun on you it was extremely likely that he intended to kill you. This is a trend seen more in young gang members more so then adult gang members whos motives are usually burglary or rape, versus teen gang members who usually need to earn respect by killing people who try and disrespect them.

    So yeah I will admit that 99% was a number I pulled out of my ass but upon researching the stats we see that I was only off by 4%.
    The source you are quoting is here: http://ojjdp.ncjrs.org/jjjournal/jjj...1297/gang.html

    I see the 95%, but you are reading the wrong info from it. 95% of gang related homicides are firearms. It simply says that if someone dies in a gang related crime, 95% of the time they will have been killed by a gun.

    It does not say that 95% of the time a gun comes out someone dies. It says absolutely nothing about the number of non-fatal gunshot wounds, or the number of times gun was fired and missed, or the number of times a gun crime resulted in no injury at all.

    So if you want to stick to 99% or 95% I would suggest you find a source that says what you think it says.
  6. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2009 11:59pm

    forum leader
     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Even if there is less than 1% chance of you getting shot, arguing the statistical probability of being shot when you can remove the possibility in the first place is fucking stupid.
  7. NoTeefa is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2009 3:41am


     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    that was some sweet street justice right there! I wonder if the Skaters got in any trouble for beatin on the guy for so long.
  8. TxSanshou is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2009 7:18am


     Style: Sanshou/bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolish View Post
    The source you are quoting is here: http://ojjdp.ncjrs.org/jjjournal/jjj...1297/gang.html

    I see the 95%, but you are reading the wrong info from it. 95% of gang related homicides are firearms. It simply says that if someone dies in a gang related crime, 95% of the time they will have been killed by a gun.

    It does not say that 95% of the time a gun comes out someone dies. It says absolutely nothing about the number of non-fatal gunshot wounds, or the number of times gun was fired and missed, or the number of times a gun crime resulted in no injury at all.
    You've misunderstood me sir, but you are correct the information that I quoted does not specifically state that if a gang member pulls a gun on you there is a 95% chance you will die, but that 95% of the times a gang member kills someone in an altercation a fire arm is involved.

    If I told you that 63% of the times a car accident kills someone, the lack of a seat belt was involved, you would probably wear your seat belt to avoid being killed in a crash.

    Just like if I told you that 95% of the times a gang related altercation killed someone a gun was involved, you would probably avoid the gang members with guns :phil2: thats all I was saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    Even if there is less than 1% chance of you getting shot, arguing the statistical probability of being shot when you can remove the possibility in the first place is fucking stupid.
    My point exactly who would honestly put their life in the hand of a pistol brandishing gang member.
    Last edited by TxSanshou; 10/15/2009 7:23am at .
  9. sempaiman is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2009 8:23am


     Style: Mixed-Up Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If the banger wanted to shoot skater he would have done it once he pulled out gun. I like the knee skater did to the bangers head...
  10. Coach Josh is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2009 8:34am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    TX you don't understand statistics.

    95% of gang related deaths involve a gun.

    This does not say the 95% of the time a gang member pulls a gun they kill someone.

    Gang related also means gang v gang not gang v civilian.

    So if only 1% of the time a fatality happens in when a gun is pulled. The 95% of gang related deaths happen within that 1%.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
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