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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by babo78 View Post
    I don't think this is 'traditional' arts advantage. It's a guy who probably trained smart, ate healthy, good genetics, and good luck. Because if you take this road, what about Jack LaLanne? Dude is like pushing 90 something and he never done any martial arts.

    Edit: For the record, BJJ is older than TKD so if TKD is traditional art in terms of how long it's been around. BJJ is traditional art as well. Don't forget , Judo is 'traditional' and judokas don't have knees at older age.
    Technically BJJ was started in 1925 and the term TKD was accepted in 1955. The KMA history can be documented back to the 1909-1945 occupation and some would argue that KMA go back some 2000 years.
    BJJ has the elements of tradition, not so regimented as the Japanese/Koreans but tradition exists in BJJ.

    All that aside my point was not to knock BJJ but to note that healthy exercise will pay dividends in the long run. And if a style encourages the practitioner to submit to punishing contact, twisted joints and strained ligaments then yes the practitioner will most likely pay for it later in life.
    A majority will accept the punishment now for the right to say their style works in self defense.

  2. #12
    DerAuslander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kickbox View Post
    The KMA history can be documented back to the 1909-1945 occupation and some would argue that KMA go back some 2000 years.
    BJJ has the elements of tradition, not so regimented as the Japanese/Koreans but tradition exists in BJJ.
    Your Korean martial arts history is woefully incorrect, especially when it comes to Taekwondo. The first Korean karate school wasn't founded until 1944. "Regimentation" prior to the Japanese Occupation did not exist in the Korean martial arts, as what little existed was either in the form of combat sports such as Sssireum or Taegyeon, the latter being almost complete extinct even before the Japanese Occupation, and would have no bearing on the creation of Taekwondo. Contrary to propoganda, not one TKD founder has been shown to have had any Taekgyun experience.

    The other root of Korean martial art exists in the military arts of the Yi Dynasty, which were CMA-based, and again, had fallen out of practice by the time of the Occupation...and again...had no bearing on the development of Taekwondo.

    So no, until 1944, you can't cite anything.
    Last edited by Jiggle Butt; 10/13/2009 11:28pm at .

  3. #13
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kickbox View Post

    All that aside my point was not to knock BJJ but to note that healthy exercise will pay dividends in the long run. And if a style encourages the practitioner to submit to punishing contact, twisted joints and strained ligaments then yes the practitioner will most likely pay for it later in life.
    A majority will accept the punishment now for the right to say their style works in self defense.
    Proof please. You are taking the upper echelon of fighters and trying to attribute them to the regular Joe. Sadly, I know many TKDers with bad knees in multiple different federations. So, maybe everyone should quit TKD.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kickbox View Post
    Technically BJJ was started in 1925 and the term TKD was accepted in 1955. The KMA history can be documented back to the 1909-1945 occupation and some would argue that KMA go back some 2000 years.
    To clarify, when you refer to KMA in this quote. You mean TKD specifically correct? Because if you meant KMA as whole, KMA can definitely be traced back pre-Korean War and Occupation period for KMA such as Ssirum (씨름) and Taegyeon (택견), and KMA as whole is older than BJJ in terms of how long it's been around.

    Otherwise, any other discussion or stories of TKD being available during 1909-1945 or tracing back 2000 year have pretty much have no proof. There is no photo/drawing, documentation, or even stories from people who lived during 1909-1945.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by babo78 View Post
    To clarify, when you refer to KMA in this quote. You mean TKD specifically correct? Because if you meant KMA as whole, KMA can definitely be traced back pre-Korean War and Occupation period for KMA such as Ssirum (씨름) and Taegyeon (택견), and KMA as whole is older than BJJ in terms of how long it's been around.

    Otherwise, any other discussion or stories of TKD being available during 1909-1945 or tracing back 2000 year have pretty much have no proof. There is no photo/drawing, documentation, or even stories from people who lived during 1909-1945.
    I certainly agree that it would be difficult to prove that TKD was around before 1955. The karate ( Korean translation is Kong soo do aka way of the empty hand or tang soo do aka way of the China hand) was taught to Koreans drafted into the Japanese military while japan occupied Korea.
    I don't think TKD became its own Korean art until the 1970's when the WTF took control. The ITF version of TKD looked very much like karate. My dad took TKD lessons in 1968 and he says it was basically shotokan karate using Korean terms. He got his black belt in moo duk kwan tae kwon do in 1971 and he said that he had friends that practiced shotokan and they found out their forms were the same pian. They even used the same highly chambered round kick. Everything was fully locked out and not snapped like the modern WTF style. I liked the old style better.
    Those guys did mess up their hands with makiwara training.

  6. #16
    DerAuslander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kickbox View Post
    I certainly agree that it would be difficult to prove that TKD was around before 1955.
    Not difficult.

    Impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kickbox View Post
    The karate ( Korean translation is Kong soo do aka way of the empty hand or tang soo do aka way of the China hand) was taught to Koreans drafted into the Japanese military while japan occupied Korea.
    The Koreans who founded Taekwondo did not learn karate after being drafted into the Japanese military, but rather when they attended universities in Japan.

  7. #17

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    I've been looking around for resources on Taegyeon's purported influence in Hapkido. Any suggestions?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DARPAChief View Post
    I've been looking around for resources on Taegyeon's purported influence in Hapkido. Any suggestions?
    Don't bother looking. Taegyeon was a very "close in" art (think inside a clinch or within that range) with kicks that were almost stomp like aimed below the knee and at an angle. It also had biting attacks. It looks nothing like TSD, TKD or HKD. Any reference to it seems to be a bid for authenticity or to extend lineage back artificially. Very few people in SK know or practice it. I was fortunate enough to see some when I was there.

  9. #19
    cyrijl's Avatar
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    Who the **** cares which is older? It makes sense that the more injuries you receive the more pain you'll be in. Unless you break your brain, that it.
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorpal View Post
    Don't bother looking. Taegyeon was a very "close in" art (think inside a clinch or within that range) with kicks that were almost stomp like aimed below the knee and at an angle. It also had biting attacks. It looks nothing like TSD, TKD or HKD. Any reference to it seems to be a bid for authenticity or to extend lineage back artificially. Very few people in SK know or practice it. I was fortunate enough to see some when I was there.
    Like this? YouTube- Taekkyun, Chungju
    Are there are good books/documentaries?

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