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  1. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2009 9:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    I have been "out" for a number of years now and when I was "in" we carried M16A2's. The M4 only being issued to select soldiers. If I am not in error, the M4 is a safe/fire/burst weapon and the M4A1 has an "Auto" option.

    Which is the general issue weapon these days?
    You are correct. I was puzzled by that too. M4s don't fire in full auto and doing 500 rounds on 3 round burst would take some

    Both the M4 and M16A2~4 are issued. Most pple have an M4 but this is more depending on the unit.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

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  2. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    ...is THE PENETRATOR

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2009 9:07pm

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well for a detail like that, the news reporter probably just meant M4A1 but didn't print it correctly because he or she didn't know the difference.
    Best Vietnam War music video I've ever seen put together by a vet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDY8raKsdfg
  3. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2009 9:37pm

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I haven't seen an M16A1 here. I haven't seen one issued by a unit in years.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  4. tgace is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/12/2009 10:52pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GuiltySpark View Post
    We found the effective range to be 150 meters. Now you CAN have hits out to 400 meters (in this case with a CQB type 552 Holosight) but anything past 150 we found guys weren't always staying down for the count. M4, maybe 100 meters.
    I've heard the same from our guys in uniform. The lower muzzle velocity from the shorter barrel (less barrel length to burn up more powder for those non-gun types out there) combined with the military restriction to hardball ammo is probably the culprit.

    Us LE guys who don't shoot nearly as far BUT get to use expanding projectiles have much better luck making the bad guys stay down with one solid hit.

    This is just my personal opinion but I think that the services should all convert to 6.8mm Rem SPC and I think that they should switch from gas impingement systems to operating rod/piston systems. To do it "on the cheap" (well THATS a relative term... I know) it would just require new uppers and magazines.

    :new_2guns
    Last edited by tgace; 10/12/2009 11:15pm at .
  5. Don Gwinn is online now
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    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2009 11:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't Marines still issue mostly M16's? Maybe they were Marines. Or the reporter has no idea what the difference between full-auto and 3-shot burst is.

    Or both. Usually when I'm on the scene of an even that gets reported in the news, I find that the reporter has changed the event significantly from the reality--and that's not counting the events where the press was on hand and simply decided not to mention the event at all.

    Guilty Spark, you have every right to tell me to shut up. I probably won't, but I'm no expert on military matters. I just get tired of people who've never fired an AR-15 and have no idea how it works telling other people that it will turn their kids into communists. Yes, it deposits carbon fouling. Yes, it's designed with tight tolerances. But the people I know who've used one "in anger" say that if you clean it, it works, and if you don't, it doesn't. Even the magical AK-47 works on that same principle, though many would rather die than admit it.
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  6. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/12/2009 11:41pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My M4A1 is full auto. I regularly do abusive things to it, like firing 500, 1000, or even more rounds in a day without taking cleaning breaks, to the point that I should probably be getting the barrel replaced soon. As long as I wipe her down regularly, and give her an occasional dunk in the solvent tank, she doesn't complain much. I have been in firefights in near and long range, and she hasn't malfunctioned yet. I occasionally have misfeeds at the range, but only after I'm approaching or passing 1000 rounds for the day. I certainly haven't fired that many rounds in combat, but I would definitely trust my M4 to take it.

    The one relatively long range firefight I got into overseas on the deployment I just got back from, I successfully engaged the enemy at a distance of about 500 meters. But I had a 14.5" barrel, ELCAN @ 4x, and was shooting 77 grain boat tail ammunition.

    Honestly, I couldn't be happier with my M4.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  7. Warcrazy is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2009 1:09am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: None

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have heard the 77 grain ammo is much better for distance than the regular green tip.
  8. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2009 9:20am

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gezere View Post
    M4s don't fire in full auto
    Don't almost all Spec Ops have an M4A1 which fires full auto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gezere View Post
    I haven't seen an M16A1 here. I haven't seen one issued by a unit in years.
    Do they even exist anymore?
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
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  9. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/13/2009 10:23am

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My basic training company was one of the first to get the new shipments of A2s, and we were issued A1's for a beach assault course in AIT. I can see why they switched to burst from FA, holy **** that thing went through ammo like a redneck goes through fries at Hardees during a NASCAR promotion.

    I never understood why they switched from the hog to the SAW either. 7.62x51 will keep the bad guy's heads down a lot more effectively than 5.56. Hell, we should switch over to that for our main battle rifle ammo (Springfield SOCOM IIs).

  10. Don Gwinn is online now
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    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2009 10:54am

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     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Funny you should mention that, because from the official reports it looks like it was a SAW that actually overheated. I'm still not buying that it was "white hot," but I note that in the report, that's a quote from a soldier speaking casually about what he had seen. I doubt he was trying to be literally accurate; more likely he was just expressing that it was really, really, really hot.
    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...4-controversy/

    Apparently the original report came from the AP, which is at least as notorious as MSNBC. The author here cites one soldier in the report who said he fired 12 magazines more or less continuously. There is no way for the M16 family of rifles to sustain that fire if it's done full-auto. As he says, the soldier was doing what he had to do to survive the fight, so no Monday-morning quarterbacking from me. He had enemies in front of him and a rifle in his hands, and I wouldn't be the one to tell him not to shoot them.

    BUT . . . . big but here . . . . that's 360 rounds, give or take, continuously, in a weapon that the manual says can sustain 140. The only way to make that work is to add a much heavier barrel or some kind of cooling system. Unless you want to carry a 15-pound AR-15 variant with a massive bull barrel or a bulky water jacket, heat is a fact of life.
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