should mma have a black belt system?

**DaeHan** · Posted On: 10/09/2009 4:11pm

Originally Posted by galois

How do you feel about this fact?

Don't feel nothing, that's the way it is. The only thing that should give practitioners some sort of credit to progress faster, is by competing in grappling/BJJ tourneys. I personally don't know about this, but I'm sure it helps somehow.

**galois** · Posted On: 10/09/2009 4:22pm

Originally Posted by DaeHan

Don't feel nothing, that's the way it is. The only thing that should give practitioners some sort of credit to progress faster, is by competing in grappling/BJJ tourneys. I personally don't know about this, but I'm sure it helps somehow.

Fair enough.

**Father Dagon** · Posted On: 10/10/2009 6:46am

Originally Posted by BadUglyMagic

While disliking the idea of a belt system for MMA, and it would be a rule set, there would have to be some structure and organizational support, plus people willing to pay and participate.

I think this has been discussed before but:

What styles/arts would be included? Wrestling(including no gi grappling), BJJ, Muay Thai, Kickboxing, pick your fav art here. Core competencies, electives?

In addition to learning the core, a student would have to integrate the movements of each core art into a working whole.

How about making the ranking system into a college type course of study? There are required core arts and after meeting the core arts levels and achieving a ranked competency in each and passing a integrated skills test belt ranking (ie, the MMA belt ranking), one would move on to specialize as it fits your personal abilities for stipes or hello kitty patches. A student would end up with a set or core competencies and then be able to add elective arts to the mix and add to the MMA belt ranking over time. This approach would allow any art to be added so as to maintain the MMA status.

Interesting but somewhat too complex.

Or the martial art college is the model of the future? Who knows?

Originally Posted by gonzomalan

i think most tma's have that view of black belt, but a bjj blackbelt is that kind of master, while a bjj blue belt, or purple, has the basics down.

I see.

Originally Posted by gonzomalan

and lol at the mcmap reference.

No lol at the MCMAP.

I have the utmost respect for the marines fitness and resilience.

Being that said, the MCMAP isn't impressive at all. According to Wikipedia the black belt 1st degree requires 62 and a half hour [sic!] of supervised training - approx the same amount of training you get if you train for 5 hours a week for one semester. Of course bayonet fencing classes might be hard to find. But a mix of MMA, self-defense and eskrima/kali will go a long way.

And the black belt degrees from 2nd and after are dubious. They require a specific military rank. Of course the higher the rank the higher the skills and responsibilities. But do the marines really think that getting promoted isn't a reward in itself enough?

Part of the curriculum is studying warrior cultures. Zulus and Spartans and everything picturesque. But how about the little known martial tradition is the kuntao of the chinese in Indonesia. For them it had nothing to do with subduing neighbors or getting patted on the ass. It was survival in a hostile environment, pure and simple. So why should they show off to their enemies how skillful they was?

I really hope that the marines either don't get to close to their enemies, or that their belts isn't normally visible. Because a black belt on a marine simply screams "Please stab me first!"

Lol at the MCMAP. LOL!

Originally Posted by gonzomalan

interesting idea, but would you include the camoflauge belts, the multi colored belts, and the sashes?

I haven't figured out the specifics yet. It's only inspired by the story of how Lao Zi rode to the west on a dark bull, symbolizing the imperfections of man, that got lighter and lighter until it eventually disappeared.

**BadUglyMagic** · Posted On: 10/10/2009 10:08am

Originally Posted by Father Dagon

Interesting but somewhat too complex.

The idea is to provide a simple way to belt rank MMA. While I made it seem complex it is not.

Core styles, electives of styles.

Certain arts provide better strking and grappling techniques. Others add techniques improving marginal performance. Core and electives.

MMA degree with core curriculumm and specialization x-fu or whatever.

The idea is to provide a potential student a reasonable reliable way to evaluate instructors.

Yes, thhis would require a governing body. No it is no guarrantee the fatal diaease of McDojoitis will not hit it.

**Father Dagon** · Posted On: 10/10/2009 10:44am

I think that the college idea is growing on me. And I know of one dojo in Stockholm who is the closes thing to the college; Combat Academy - one fee that covers everything from Qi Gong to MMA. However, there seem to be no kind of belt in CA, lol.

**Purpleskunk** · Posted On: 10/10/2009 1:22pm

That place looks huge.... is it one of those co-op things?

**Father Dagon** · Posted On: 10/10/2009 1:58pm

Originally Posted by Purpleskunk

That place looks huge.... is it one of those co-op things?

Don't know. Never been there. It seems to have two or three individual training halls. Since the start in 1978 they have been offering several arts, starting with karate, qi-gong, iaido and kobujutsu. Shall I translate their history?

**Father Dagon** · Posted On: 10/10/2009 3:23pm

Ah, there is also this swedish version of Goshindo, where the main parts are wrestling, judo, boxing and thai boxing. Translation:

Distinguishing for goshindo is the free training concept where one focus to develop the function of ones techniques instead fo the form. If a technique doesn't work in combat or demands a lot of tricksing is it not goshindo. The second distinguishing part of goshindo is the absence of a regular system of techniques. One work instead after a matrix system that the practicioners themselves fills with techniques. The techniques are taken from training camps with different world champions and other prominent practicioners at annual training camps.

**gonzomalan** · Posted On: 10/11/2009 3:26am

Originally Posted by Father Dagon

I really hope that the marines either don't get to close to their enemies, or that their belts isn't normally visible. Because a black belt on a marine simply screams "Please stab me first!"

i get a little defensive because my brother is/was a marine (hon. discharged), not because i don't like you. mcmap is rather new, and marines have to train other things as well as implement them, so i don't really give them too much crap for having dubious standards.
the only part of your post i think i can raise an issue with is the one i quoted, because i believe the belt is hard to see if a marine is wearing his utes properly.

**pLackR.brizzL** · Posted On: 10/11/2009 4:04am

I would definately say no.For example me myself and i are into Trail riding,dirt bikes ect...Many times i'll pick a sweet frame for instance a aluminum frame due to it's weight,then i'll go out n hand pick some sick rims..Better ones than you would normally get off a standard bike,dope cranks ect..Most of my bikes are customized in which i choose what I WANT on it..A whole lot better quality than pointing in a window for a one stop shop.Such as a mma fighter may go to a top gracie camp for his bjj,then somewhere else for his muay tai/kickboxing ect.A mma belt would be to hard to generalize,due to the mixed martial art system's one chooses,different strokes for different folks.Poser's may fall into this,and alotta people would probably make alotta $ doing it.Besides in my opinion,a one stop shop to train mma probably wouldnt be that great unless you go to a super camp where all the top trainers for each desired disicpline just happen to be under one roof on a normal basis.I say bad idea,i personally would rather pick n choose my coaches to be a awesome competitor,rather to be labeled as a black belt MMA guy.