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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hesperus View Post
    Many, many styles are worth bashing.

    words from a real expert of the martial arts.

    fiirst off you cant compare traditional Shotokan to MMA completely different animals.
    And after the reading the OP .I would think he would enjoy MMA more than Shotokan.
    Shotokan while I love it is not for everyone. It is not a complete style it is a stand up striking style that mostly does ippon kumite which translated means point sparring .
    And has no ground or grappling whatsoever. Yes we sweep we do take downs but there is no ground and pound and I hate to say it if a Shotokan fighter gets taken down by a BJJ person on the ground we are mince meat .
    Even kyokushin while more full contact perhaps with continous sparring IMHO has the same weakness no ground game .

    Like I said I love Shotokan and im in a modern Shotokan Dojo with alot of live training and hard sparring .Its still WKF type competitive training but the major weakness there is no ground game . Yeah we have practiced some wrestling but all that did made us realize us how much of a disadvantage we would be on the ground.

    So for a shotokan person definitely need to cross train .And I love Shotokan but it is what it is and for me it works
    But if you the OP want to really mix it up and want all around fighting Id have to say MMA.
    Move along citizen ,nothing to see here !!!!!

  2. #22

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    If an MMA gym incorporated into its training sessions a full contact 1-hit and stop session, would it improve its fighter's abilities to read movements and counter?

    I'm just curious if that's what could produce those abilities, or if it's just mostly Machida's talent.

  3. #23
    Hesperus's Avatar
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    You also can't compare Machida's Shotokan to most Shotokan in 'murrica.

    It's not what you call your style, it's not the strategies/concepts/techniques you espouse, it's how you train. And most Shotokan doesn't train at all like Machida Karate, and next to no Shotokan practitioners train the way Lyoto Machida does.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hesperus View Post
    You also can't compare Machida's Shotokan to most Shotokan in 'murrica.

    It's not what you call your style, it's not the strategies/concepts/techniques you espouse, it's how you train. And most Shotokan doesn't train at all like Machida Karate, and next to no Shotokan practitioners train the way Lyoto Machida does.

    while Machida has roots and training in Shotokan he is not a Shotokan fighter , to see That look on youtube and check out JKA or WKF videos. Machida while he is my favorite MMA fighter is a MMA fighter that uses his stand up to great advantage but he is MMA to the max.
    Move along citizen ,nothing to see here !!!!!

  5. #25
    Hesperus's Avatar
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    WTF does "MMA to the max" mean?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxd View Post
    If an MMA gym incorporated into its training sessions a full contact 1-hit and stop session, would it improve its fighter's abilities to read movements and counter?

    I'm just curious if that's what could produce those abilities, or if it's just mostly Machida's talent.
    Yes it would, assuming you incorporated all the other drills that go along with it. Just like an mma class doesn't toss a bunch of untrained nubs into a cage, tell them the rules, and then let them wail on each other and crapple, in Shotokan there's a lot of work that goes into the minimizing of telegraphs, using feints to set up your opponent, and learning how to counter. If you actually planned to use techniques specifically from the system you'd also need to develop their type of footwork which isn't complex at all, but still takes practice.

    It really doesn't need to be stop/start pointsparring though. Shotokan isn't a ruleset as some people like to think, it's a strategy/method/perspective.

    On a related side note:

    I always hear Machida is difficult to prepare for because no one has his skillset and it makes me want to facepalm every time. I will never understand why fighters who are preparing for a match with Machida don't simply hire a karateka from the JKA or some other reputable org as one of their sparring partners. So they might not have a clue about grappling. So what? It would still help people get a feel for his timing and movement in punch/kick range standup and is certainly better than only sparring kickboxers and then looking cluleless once the fight starts.

    I'm not endorsing the OP stay in his school btw. Look, if I joined a boxing gym that just wanted me to jump rope and shadowbox 9/10 of the time I would probably leave too regardless of the fact nearly every mma fighter in the world has a boxing coach. Style names are general labels and it's what you actually spend your time doing (and how relevant that is towards your goals) that matters.

    Beyond that, even the best Shotokan school in the world probably isn't going to know much about how to get you into mma, who is a reputable promoter, how to make sure you're not being matched up against someone with a lot more experience, etc. etc. You probably want someone who has done this before and not someone who is trying to figure it out via Google for the first time. If you want to play football, join a football camp, don't join a rubgy camp.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hesperus View Post
    WTF does "MMA to the max" mean?
    Think about what it means it will come to you !!!!
    Move along citizen ,nothing to see here !!!!!

  8. #28

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    If "MMA to the max" means typical MMA stylist, it is not Machida. Yes he crosstrains, but his style is very different than other fighters. I am curious to see if he is an outlier or will transform the sport. To judge that we need to see if imitators show up and have success. In either case, I would move to proven MMA gyms if I was the OP.

  9. #29

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    Thanks bruh for thee advice,as your a shotokan guy..I just left the dojo hungry,as if you went to eat somewhere,paid for it then only got so much,left hungry and had to go somewhere else to get full...its time to really eat.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by maofas View Post
    Yes it would, assuming you incorporated all the other drills that go along with it. Just like an mma class doesn't toss a bunch of untrained nubs into a cage, tell them the rules, and then let them wail on each other and crapple, in Shotokan there's a lot of work that goes into the minimizing of telegraphs, using feints to set up your opponent, and learning how to counter. If you actually planned to use techniques specifically from the system you'd also need to develop their type of footwork which isn't complex at all, but still takes practice.

    It really doesn't need to be stop/start pointsparring though. Shotokan isn't a ruleset as some people like to think, it's a strategy/method/perspective.

    On a related side note:

    I always hear Machida is difficult to prepare for because no one has his skillset and it makes me want to facepalm every time. I will never understand why fighters who are preparing for a match with Machida don't simply hire a karateka from the JKA or some other reputable org as one of their sparring partners. So they might not have a clue about grappling. So what? It would still help people get a feel for his timing and movement in punch/kick range standup and is certainly better than only sparring kickboxers and then looking cluleless once the fight starts.

    I'm not endorsing the OP stay in his school btw. Look, if I joined a boxing gym that just wanted me to jump rope and shadowbox 9/10 of the time I would probably leave too regardless of the fact nearly every mma fighter in the world has a boxing coach. Style names are general labels and it's what you actually spend your time doing (and how relevant that is towards your goals) that matters.

    Beyond that, even the best Shotokan school in the world probably isn't going to know much about how to get you into mma, who is a reputable promoter, how to make sure you're not being matched up against someone with a lot more experience, etc. etc. You probably want someone who has done this before and not someone who is trying to figure it out via Google for the first time. If you want to play football, join a football camp, don't join a rubgy camp.
    Yeah man,good **** thnx...Im surrounded by gracie bjj camps out here,i think imma move in that direction.....

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