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  1. krsd is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2009 5:03pm


     Style: Kungfu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank you for posting this. It is a public document, but can apparently only be obtained in person by submitting a request at the the police station.

    I think this goes a long way to demonstrating repeated nature of the issue, and the level of control exerted in this situation by the Soards, especially since they were repeatedly approached about the issues and apparently did not address them fully.

    Would it have been better if the women had went to the police right away? Definitely, but they were led to believe it was an isolated event (a "misunderstanding") of no consequence each time.

    The mention of brainwashing techniques employed in the schools is also of interest. I don't know if they are intentionally used, but if you look at common techniques used in brainwashing it is pretty evident that the effect is being achieved at least to some degree. Given these results, I'd think they are being employed to pretty solid effect.
  2. krsd is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/08/2009 9:00pm


     Style: Kungfu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To the possability of brainwashing techniques being a factor in this situation (intentional or not) the following has some information as to common tactics employed:
    http://answers.google.com/answers/th...id/180553.html

    The techniques fall into seven main categories:

    “Techniques such as: Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile
    fixation drills, Excessive exact repetition of routine activities,
    Sleep restriction and/or Nutritional restriction.”

    “Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends are
    abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved
    attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered.”

    “Prohibit disconfirming information and non supporting opinions in
    group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss
    with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An "in-group"
    language is usually constructed.”

    “Make the person re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her
    experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are
    designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic
    consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control and
    defense mechanisms. The subject is guided to reinterpret his or her
    life's history and adopt a new version of causality.”

    “Create a sense of powerlessness by subjecting the person to intense
    and frequent actions and situations which undermine the person's
    confidence in himself and his judgment.”

    “Create strong aversive emotional arousals in the subject by use of
    nonphysical punishments such as intense humiliation, loss of
    privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt,
    anxiety and manipulation.”

    “Intimidate the person with the force of group-sanctioned secular
    psychological threats.”

    “These tactics of psychological force are applied to such a severe
    degree that the individual's capacity to make informed or free choices
    becomes inhibited. The victims become unable to make the normal, wise
    or balanced decisions which they most likely or normally would have
    made, had they not been unknowingly manipulated by these coordinated
    technical processes.”
    Some of these items could obviously fall into the realm of normal instruction such as the use of drills, except they specifically list it as "Extended" and "Excessive exact repetition" which indicates a level of repetition beyond what would normally be considered healthy. The other one that caught my attention was "Sleep restriction and/or Nutritional restriction."

    “Prohibit disconfirming information and non supporting opinions in
    group communication"
    This is something that I have wittnessed firsthand thoughout the CSC's as they actively discourage both cross training and even going on to forums such as this one.

    From what I have heard of instructor training sessions within the CSC they exhibit a number of these techniques.

    I can see where others of these have been employed both during regular instruction and more directly through the culture of the schools promoting a sense of community among the students.

    I am not saying that there is no place for some of these things in moderation. However I am referring specifically about it going beyond a point of moderation or reason, and into a level of exerting control, or otherwise convincing people to act or go along with things they would not do otherwise.
    Last edited by krsd; 10/08/2009 9:03pm at .
  3. Red Staff is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2009 3:47pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shaolin Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Very interesting. My only question is why did not David Soard fight this?

    It was obviously not rape and the girl in question was so stoned I doubt she even knows what happened herself.

    The rest of it? No one ever said Dave was a saint. I guess if you start putting guys in prison for making aggressive passes and groping then half the male population would be in jail.

    I hope the student who convinced the girl to come forward a year and a half after all of this happened is happy now. They now have their payback for the Soard's greed.

    Once I saw this report on here I realized why GM The' is behind the Soards 100%!
  4. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2009 4:33pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Staff View Post
    Very interesting. My only question is why did not David Soard fight this?

    It was obviously not rape and the girl in question was so stoned I doubt she even knows what happened herself.

    The rest of it? No one ever said Dave was a saint. I guess if you start putting guys in prison for making aggressive passes and groping then half the male population would be in jail.

    I hope the student who convinced the girl to come forward a year and a half after all of this happened is happy now. They now have their payback for the Soard's greed.

    Once I saw this report on here I realized why GM The' is behind the Soards 100%!
    Groping, as you call it, is a form of battery because it involved unwanted touching. I'm not licensed to practice law in Colorado but I can assure you that such conduct is considered criminal behavior in Connecticut and almost every state, especially when the unwanted touching has a sexual component. If The' agrees with your definition, it would indicate why such a problem arose with one of his senior black belts.
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/11/2009 6:04pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I guess if you start putting guys in prison for making aggressive passes and groping then half the male population would be in jail.
    You might be right. Maybe it has to do more with status, money and power.

    http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-722621.html
    QB Jake Plummer, accused of felony sex abuse, agreed to a plea bargain yesterday in Phoenix under which he received two years of probation.

    Plummer, who was drafted by the Cardinals out of Arizona State, was accused of groping four women in March at a Tempe nightclub. He faced four felony counts of sex abuse that could have led to eight years in prison.

    Before the start of a preliminary hearing on the charges, Plummer instead pleaded no contest to one misdemeanor count of disorderly conduct and guilty to one misdemeanor assault count that was in the original criminal complaint. Judge Gregory Martin of Maricopa County Superior Court sentenced Plummer to two years of probation, fined ...
  6. littleoldme is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2009 5:21am


     Style: bagua

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Staff View Post
    Very interesting. My only question is why did not David Soard fight this?

    It was obviously not rape and the girl in question was so stoned I doubt she even knows what happened herself.

    The rest of it? No one ever said Dave was a saint. I guess if you start putting guys in prison for making aggressive passes and groping then half the male population would be in jail.

    I hope the student who convinced the girl to come forward a year and a half after all of this happened is happy now. They now have their payback for the Soard's greed.

    Once I saw this report on here I realized why GM The' is behind the Soards 100%!
    The thing I have found most disturbing about this thread is recognising, with feeling of sinking depression, how members of cults and abusive groups often support abusers and try to denigrate victims.

    The above post is a really classic example of this IMO

    Red Staff, seriously dude, you need to get some counselling ASAP. Your perspectives on sexual assault are way out of line
  7. artard is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2009 3:17pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The really bizarre part about Red Staff is how drastically his posts have changed from page 1 to page 6 of this thread. It went from "I am a former instructor and think Master Dave will face more charges" to defending him and rationalizing groping as not being assault and, in my view, intentionally convoluting the discussion by repeatedly posting the same things and mis-interpreting things to the point of absurdity.

    Regardless, he clearly has some issues with women.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/13/2009 10:13pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  9. Red Staff is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2009 10:48pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shaolin Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It looks like I can be personally attacked here but when I answer it my posts are moved somewhere. I should have known that would happen here.

    No matter, Many of us knows what the future holds for the instructors of the nine schools. May they may fun with their independent schools!
  10. littleoldme is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2009 3:24am


     Style: bagua

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Staff View Post
    It looks like I can be personally attacked here but when I answer it my posts are moved somewhere. I should have known that would happen here.

    No matter, Many of us knows what the future holds for the instructors of the nine schools. May they may fun with their independent schools!
    I wasn't attacking you

    I was very concerned, from you post that I quoted, that you seemed to believe that half of all men grope people and that groping was something that is not really serious.

    Let's look at your post again

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Staff View Post
    Very interesting. My only question is why did not David Soard fight this?
    Interesting question. Why do you think he did not fight it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Staff View Post
    It was obviously not rape and the girl in question was so stoned I doubt she even knows what happened herself.
    How do you know that? Were you there? Are you saying that if a woman is so intoxicated that she doesn't know what is going on (I'm not saying that she was - but if we accept your premise for the sake or argument) that she is asking to be raped or sexually assaulted? Or perhaps that if she is raped or assaulted that her intoxicated condition means that she should have no recourse to the law if she is assaulted?

    I am confused, what exactly is the point you are trying to make here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Staff View Post
    The rest of it? No one ever said Dave was a saint. I guess if you start putting guys in prison for making aggressive passes and groping then half the male population would be in jail.
    Do you really understand what this statement says about you and about Soard? Do you understand how insulting your comment is to the many men who would never dream of "groping" women (or men for that matter)?

    Maybe 50% of the men in your dysfunctional little cult thank it's OK to sexually assault people, but I think you will find that in the real world things are very different.


    Some men are so incredibly stupid that they seem to think that women and girls actually enjoy having our breasts and buttocks grabbed by men we do not know at all.

    It is a very scary thing to turn round to see the face of the man who has just grabbed my arse to discover that he has this excited, happy look on his face as if he imagines that I am going to congratulate him for his actions or possibly even give him my phone number.

    Do you really think that women think "mmm he gives really good grope"?

    I'm asking because it sounds like you do think that.

    Get help. Seriously, you have a serious problem regarding your understanding, or lack thereof, of sexual and social boundaries.
    Last edited by littleoldme; 10/14/2009 3:42am at .
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