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  1. #1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    No one should pay Metamoris or Ralek Gracie any more money, until he pays his debts

    This is my colleague, Professor Marcel Goncalves.
    He is an excellent technician.
    And a very classy individual.
    He won the Metamoris Challenge.
    According to Prof Marcel, Ralek Gracie owes him a $10,000 cash purse.
    What you may not know about Prof Marcel,
    is that he makes his living grinding it out in tournaments.
    Fighting monsters, often above his weight class for cash purses.
    I have coached my own students against Prof Marcel many times.
    I have ref'ed Prof Marcel's matches in cash purse tournaments.
    And there are very few up and coming black belts that I admire more as a person, and as a good technician than Prof Marcel.
    Even though, and in fact because, I had to coach against him many times, and I know his conduct to be excellent.
    What you may not about Prof Marcel, is that he has a new baby.
    No one should pay Metamoris nor Ralek Gracie another dime until he pays back every fighter what they are owed, and refunds every customer who prepaid for a service that they did not receive.
    Many people put their faith in the Metamoris tournament because they believed that the full weight of the enterprises of the Torrance Academy were behind the tournament.
    But apparently there is something wrong.
    Some of my own students have been owed monies now for over ten months that they paid for a canceled tournament that was never refunded.
    And, my colleague, Prof Marcel, who does deserve to be treated this way, is allegedly owed a large promised cash purse from Ralek Gracie.
    We should not continue to do business with someone who commits Fraud this way, nor continue to support them monetarily until they pay everyone what is owed.
    Especially when we are talking about money owed to fighters who grind it out to win cash purses to feed their new babies.

    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 3/11/2016 9:57am at .

  2. #2
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    This is my colleague, Professor Marcel Goncalves.
    He is an excellent technician.
    And a very classy individual.
    He won the Metamoris Challenge.
    According to Prof Marcel, Ralek Gracie owes him a $10,000 cash purse.
    What you may not know about Prof Marcel,
    is that he makes his living grinding it out in tournaments.
    Fighting monsters, often above his weight class for cash purses.
    I have coached my own students against Prof Marcel many times.
    I have ref'ed Prof Marcel's matches in cash purse tournaments.
    And there are very few up and coming black belts that I admire more as a person, and as a good technician than Prof Marcel.
    Even though, and in fact because, I had to coach against him many times, and I know his conduct to be excellent.
    What you may not about Prof Marcel, is that he has a new baby.
    No one should pay Metamoris nor Ralek Gracie another dime until he pays back every fighter what they are owed, and refunds every customer who prepaid for a service that they did not receive.
    Many people put their faith in the Metamoris tournament because they believed that the full weight of the enterprises of the Torrance Academy were behind the tournament.
    But apparently there is something wrong.
    Some of my own students have been owed monies now for over ten months that they paid for a canceled tournament that was never refunded.
    And, my colleague, Prof Marcel, who does deserve to be treated this way, is allegedly owed a large promised cash purse from Ralek Gracie.
    We should not continue to do business with someone who commits Fraud this way, nor continue to support them monetarily until they pay everyone what is owed.
    Especially when we are talking about money owed to fighters who grind it out to win cash purses to feed their new babies.

    this a rough situation.
    I don't actually agree with you position ( who fucking saw that coming :-p) but I really want these guys paid.
    Between of the FemiNazi uprising because Ralek said there arent many good female competitors (because there isn't and many tourneys are devoid of female purple belts let another a black belt) ..... and Joe Rogan and Eddie Bravo bad mouthing Metamoris to Millions their shows started to tank.
    Now I don't see how bankruptcy for metamoris is going to get these guys paid.
    It will maybe put them out of business and maybe your friends at the shoemaker tournament are the new premier league. You guys may do a better job but that's not gonna help Aj and the others get a check scratched to them.

    I think this may be a ,"You can't get blood from a turnip." situation.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    this a rough situation.
    I don't actually agree with you position ( who fucking saw that coming :-p) but I really want these guys paid.
    Between of the FemiNazi uprising because Ralek said there arent many good female competitors (because there isn't and many tourneys are devoid of female purple belts let another a black belt) ..... and Joe Rogan and Eddie Bravo bad mouthing Metamoris to Millions their shows started to tank.
    Now I don't see how bankruptcy for metamoris is going to get these guys paid.
    It will maybe put them out of business and maybe your friends at the shoemaker tournament are the new premier league. You guys may do a better job but that's not gonna help Aj and the others get a check scratched to them.

    I think this may be a ,"You can't get blood from a turnip." situation.
    You make a good point that a poor Ralek cannot pay.

    But is Ralek really poor?

    And there is a confusion for many regarding the ownership of Metamoris since the corporation had expired and been allowed to lapse before these issues of nonpayment of monies.

    Did Ralek own Metamoris, or was it also partially owned by other members of his family?

    Were the funds they took in comingled with their personal funds, and used to pay personal expenses rather than pay out the fighter's purses, and instead of issuing refunds to the customers for cancelled tournaments?

    Many people put their trust in the financial promises Ralek made because they were led to believe that he was backed by the full financial resources of the other Gracies of the Torrance Academy, including his brothers, who were both present and visible at these tournaments, seemingly in leadership roles.

    Should we believe that they do not have the means to pay either?

    Where did my student's $175 go for the cancelled tournament?
    Was it comingled with someone's personal monies and spent on personal expenses,
    And is that why ten months later they have not been issued a refund?

    This is really not just a civil matter.
    Taking someone's money's across state lines without the intent to provide the promised service is also a criminal offense.

    Bottom line is: I have to side with the poor fighters, whose competition footage, blood and sweat, continues to drive traffic to the web presences owned and associated with the particular Gracie Brothers who all seemed to have some involvement with this promotion when it was being marketed to everybody else.

    Ralek should settle these debts, with the help of the Gracie Academy in Torrance if need be, with the fighters who are owed purses and the customers who are owed refunds.

    And until they do, its a "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice then shame on me" situation.

    I ask everyone to stand with the poor fighters, to ensure that a rich son of a rich father, who can surely settle these debts if they really needed to, pay back they owe.
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 3/11/2016 11:20am at .

  4. #4
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    You make a good point that a poor Ralek cannot pay.

    But is Ralek really poor?

    And there is a confusion for many regarding the ownership of Metamoris since the corporation had expired and been allowed to lapse before these issues of nonpayment of monies.

    Did Ralek own Metamoris, or was it also partially owned by other members of his family?

    Were the funds they took in comingled with their personal funds, and used to pay personal expenses rather than pay out the fighter's purses, and instead of issuing refunds to the customers for cancelled tournaments?

    Many people put their trust in the financial promises Ralek made because they were led to believe that he was backed by the full financial resources of the other Gracies of the Torrance Academy, including his brothers, who were both present and visible at these tournaments, seemingly in leadership roles.

    Should we believe that they do not have the means to pay either?

    Where did my student's $175 go for the cancelled tournament?
    Was it comingled with someone's personal monies and spent on personal expenses,
    And is that why ten months later they have not been issued a refund?

    This is really not just a civil matter.
    Taking someone's money's across state lines without the intent to provide the promised service is also a criminal offense.

    Bottom line is: I have to side with the poor fighters, whose competition footage, blood and sweat, continues to drive traffic to the web presences owned and associated with the particular Gracie Brothers who all seemed to have some involvement with this promotion when it was being marketed to everybody else.

    Ralek should settle these debts, with the help of the Gracie Academy in Torrance if need be, with the fighters who are owed purses and the customers who are owed refunds.

    And until they do, its a "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice then shame on me" situation.

    I ask everyone to stand with the poor fighters, to ensure that a rich son of a rich father, who can surely settle these debts if they really needed to, pay back they owe.
    You have been around jiu jitsu long enough to know that just because they share the same last name doesn't mean they're on the same Financial team. I certainly have no idea about the financials of metamoris. I don't know who's an investor and who owns what. I do know when the show started to tank they couldn't make payroll and I also heard they lost their financial backing.
    I suspect this was a Ralek lone venture with the studio 540 guy.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    You have been around jiu jitsu long enough to know that just because they share the same last name doesn't mean they're on the same Financial team. I certainly have no idea about the financials of metamoris. I don't know who's an investor and who owns what. I do know when the show started to tank they couldn't make payroll and I also heard they lost their financial backing.
    I suspect this was a Ralek lone venture with the studio 540 guy.
    You might be right that Ralek is the lone wolf owner.

    However, what we don't is what Ralek has done to take any responsibility himself.

    I had a bad year in my business,
    and I started selling prized possessions until everyone that I might of owed got paid on time,
    and I didn't stop selling until I reached that point.

    I don't know what is going on with Ralek.
    But I can't think of many lower forms of life than a fight promoter
    that dead beats on what he owes the fighters.

    People took Ralek's promises on faith
    because of who his father is,
    and who his brothers are.
    As the tournament did well, the Gracie Academy benefited.
    And now, we have people that paid for services they never received,
    and we have people that provided services for which they were not paid,
    and we have heard no work nor make good from the Gracie Academy.

    One time one of our local BJJ competitors closed their shop directly after taking in year in advance memberships from most of their students.
    I arranged for most of those ripped off students to get six months free at schools I had ownership in or had influence with
    (even making that arrangement for those students with my other competitors who those students lived closer to),
    because when that kind of integrity embarrassment happens,
    it lowers the waters for all boats.

    I find the silence from the Gracie Academy regarding this issue, a bit disappointing, because they were all pretty visible with that tournament at one time of another.

    And they are not without the means to provide Ralek with bridge financing to pay off his debts and then he could hold another event to pay his family who gave him the bridge financing back.

  6. #6
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Here are some words from Keenan Cornelius on this.
    https://www.facebook.com/keenancorne...01203755451974

    While I think he is being a bit too forgiving it does highlight that this really comes down to being a failed business venture vs someone running away with the money.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Here are some words from Keenan Cornelius on this.
    https://www.facebook.com/keenancorne...01203755451974

    While I think he is being a bit too forgiving it does highlight that this really comes down to being a failed business venture vs someone running away with the money.
    I love the class and style of Mr. Cornelius' prose.

    But, a bridge loan from the Torrance Academy / Gracie University would pay the debts off, and allow Ralek to hold the other event he wants to hold to pay back his family.

    Everyone had confidence in this promotion because they were given the impression that it was part of the Torrance Academy's portfolio of initiatives, with their involvement in the leadership.

    The TA/GU group could make a quiet bridge loan, with conditions to Ralek and make this problem go away.

    Most importantly, they could make it right for fighters like Prof Marcel by dispersing the funds directly to them instead of giving the funds to Ralek, in case he is part of the problem.

    Not to mention issuing the refunds for the customers for whom a couple hundred bucks is a lot of money and they never got a refund for cancelled tournaments.

    Many of these folks are the real fighters who grind it out in cash purse tournaments to make their living.

    They deserve better.
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 3/11/2016 12:26pm at .

  8. #8
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    I love the class and style of Mr. Cornelius' prose.

    But, a bridge loan from the Torrance Academy / Gracie University would pay the debts off, and allow Ralek to hold the other event he wants to hold to pay back his family.

    Everyone had confidence in this promotion because they were given the impression that it was part of the Torrance Academy's portfolio of initiatives, with their involvement in the leadership.

    The TA/GU group could make a quiet bridge loan, with conditions to Ralek and make this problem go away.

    Most importantly, they could make it right for fighters like Prof Marcel.

    Not to mention the customers for whom a couple hundred bucks is a lot of money and they never got a refund for cancelled tournaments.

    Many of these folks are the real fighters who grind it out in cash purse tournaments to make their living.

    They deserve better.
    A bridge loan only makes sense if Metamoris is a viable business format.
    We all know it could be, but is it under the stewardship of Ralek.

    Also I don't know where your getting the connection to Torrance Academy / Gracie University.
    I have never been lead to the impression that the two are even slightly related.
    Has Metamoris ever had any fighters come out of Torrance?
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    A bridge loan only makes sense if Metamoris is a viable business format.
    We all know it could be, but is it under the stewardship of Ralek.

    Also I don't know where your getting the connection to Torrance Academy / Gracie University.
    I have never been lead to the impression that the two are even slightly related.
    Has Metamoris ever had any fighters come out of Torrance?
    Prof Ryron Gracie had several metamoris matches,

    and Ralek's brothers heavily promoted the tournament in general.

    Most importantly, the family bridge loan group could make it right for fighters like Prof Marcel by dispersing the funds directly to them instead of giving the funds to Ralek, in case Ralek is part of the problem.

    And disperse the refunds directly to the customers.

    Then if Ralek goes ahead and holds his other next event, like he has suggested as his plan to pay back monies owed, he could pay his family bridge loan group back.

    Instead of the general BJJ community being asked to give Ralek additional money to pay back the money he already owes to the BJJ community.
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 3/11/2016 12:31pm at .

  10. #10
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Prof Ryron Gracie had several metamoris matches,
    Oh right he has, but still most of the guys really have not even be GJJ guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    and Ralek's brothers heavily promoted the tournament in general.
    So have a lot of other people, I don't know if their is any finical connection between the two.



    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Most importantly, the family bridge loan group could make it right for fighters like Prof Marcel by dispersing the funds directly to them instead of giving the funds to Ralek, in case Ralek is part of the problem.

    And disperse the refunds directly to the customers.

    Then if Ralek goes ahead and holds his other next event, like he has suggested as his plan to pay back monies owed, he could pay his family bridge loan group back.

    Instead of the general BJJ community being asked to give Ralek additional money to pay back the money he already owes to the BJJ community.
    I am not saying that this isn't a viable strategy but I don't think Torrance or the Family are on the hook for this.
    This would certainly be a HUGE favor to Ralek. On that they can probably afford to make.
    One that they should probably make to the community as a whole, but they are under no obligation to do so.

    Don't get me wrong Ralek, needs to make people whole again, but he may not have the option to get the loan you are talking about.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

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