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  1. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2009 1:42pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FMA, Ego Warrior

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, if you're honestly the shiznit at a few arts, and you see ways to meld, even improve upon the systems, then sure, go for it. There's more than one way to skin a cat. For instance, I personally have been shown dozens of variations on sotogari in several different arts, and even a sytem that wasn't considered "art", so mixing things up isn't just a good thing, it's evolution.

    But that's if your actually a master, and you have your own ideas. If your not already the shizlle fo rizzle, grand poo bah asswhupper, then your no better than guy's like Frank Dux and Ashida Kim. That is to say, a self inflated, lying **** heel, who's books aren;t worth the paper they're printed on. They lie to their students and admirers, and even worse, they lie to themselves. Ultimately bringing other, real martial arts down with them by association in the minds of the average pleb. Weak sauce, weak kung fu. DON'T BE THAT GUY!!!!!!!

    As for giving yourself rank. Dude, you're the GM of your own art. What do you need a "belt, umpteenth dan" for? Your previous ranks in other arts should be enough to give you skills and credibility. If you have to front like that to gain confidence, maybe you need to read the first two paragraphs in this post again.

    Also, go forth and PWN the bad asses in other arts. Win challenges. This is the true test of your art, and any of the founders worth their salt proved their skill in real fights or at least competitions. (Old school guys won death matches, newer styles like BJJ won in no holds barred tournaments, either way, you've got to walk the walk bro.)Even Douche Bags like Segal had to win a few fights before they got taken seriously. And he just wanted to open a school. Your talking about a whole new art. So you better be tough as nails buddy.

    Good luck, train safe, and guard the jewels.
  2. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/06/2009 1:46pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There was a dojo review of a Japanese fellow with a smattering of high dan ranks in aikido, judo, and full-contact karate (6th and 8th and the like), who had founded his own style of jujitsu. Not sure if he gave himself 10th dan, but the other instructors in the art were max 2nd dan or so, IIRC. He teaches it alongside judo and karate I think.

    I feel that is a fairly legitimate path towards founding one's own style and getting 10th dan, as are the various genial breakaways from Kyokushin (ie Enshin, Daido Juku) or other styles. If you prove yourself definitively in both competition and rank in one or multiple styles, founding your own syncretic style is not uncalled for...and when you found a style, 10th dan is one reasonable rank to have.

    From the CMA side of things, Tim Cartmell founded Shen Wu after being a badass in several Chinese styles (and before/as he was earning a black belt in BJJ). Since it's not a Japanese art, and I'm not even sure he gives out non-BJJ rank at his school, he avoids the issue of "what level dan am I!??!?!?"
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  3. Zapruder is offline
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    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2009 1:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by searcher66071 View Post
    I am not sure why anyone would want to even try and form their own art. I have enough trouble working through the ones I have avaialble to me.

    I guess if you are a visionary and you are willing to take the time to formulate something truly unique, then it MIGHT be alright. But how many Kano, Gracie, Emperado,.......type people are there out there. I think they are few and far between.
    You left out Franca BJJ...(Fadda)
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceLost View Post
    Actually, I don't do it because I don't want people to be scammed - I do it because I enjoy kicking down the doors of Lies and Deceit and then forcibly fucking Fraud with the dildo of Truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    I don't care if they gave it to him because, he tickles butterfly butt-holes while wearing a pink frock.
  4. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2009 2:35pm

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some questions truly cannot even be asked much less understood unless a certain amount of progress has occured. Telling a dog how to grip a stick is not an exerscize in compassion or in erudition for the dog or for you.

    The real problem with this question is that before anyone should even think about issues like this they should develop an understanding about what is out there and how it applies to combat.

    In the old days the ultimate arbitrator of style was the battlefield. Basically if you said Hi to Fred after a major battle then Fred had a succesful style, he was after all around. Gradually as battles faded dueling and challenges happened, and styles emerged that reflected this activity. Samurai in civilian times had to be able to cut another down quick from the draw so Iado emerges... In Brazil, a very Machismo culture one guy wants to fight... instead of getting a gun they settle it with fists. Brazilian Ju Jutsu emerges out of this activity.

    SO evolution ultimately determines through a type of proto natural selection what styles are necessary and work... As great as BJJ is I would not want to use it on a battlefield or in a castle.... As great as AikiJutsu is I wouldn't want to use it in a ring. As great as boxing is against a Samoan who is twice my size give me BJJ so I can nulify his size... etc etc.

    What does a person bring that is different? some people do bring different things to the table that is the question. Does it so things different enough to be a different style?
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
  5. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2009 3:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Larus marinus View Post
    I suppose that you could defend the 10th degree thing by claiming that you need to establish a belt system for the Nu-Budo...
    Nope.
    What rank did Jigoro Kano have in Kodokan Judo?
    Keep in mind that he is the creator of the belt system so many arts use now.
    Therefore, that defense would be futile.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  6. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2009 3:37pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Larus marinus View Post
    ...awarding oneself a 10th Dan and proclaiming oneself Supreme Grandmaster/Hanshi/Soke/Kancho/etc. - under what circumstances is this considered acceptable by the wider MA community? Is it *ever* considered an acceptable practice?

    Just trying to get this down straight, being a n00b.

    I suppose that if you were already extremely high-ranking in another art and you believed that you'd developed a New Way Of Doing It that was superior, or added something significant to the style that made it, in your opinion, better but now fundamentally different - then that might be a legitimate reason...
    My instructor came into my gym. I told him I wanted to mix modern training with the kung fu he taught me. He told me go for it and walked into my school and told the rest of my students.

    I took myself off the ranking system and just simply told everybody I was the founder of the system. 'Nuf Said.
  7. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/06/2009 3:40pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless View Post
    I took myself off the ranking system and just simply told everybody I was the founder of the system. 'Nuf Said.
    I think this is one of the best ways to proceed if one were to do what you did; can you contrast this with what the ranking system is for your students? Ie, I thought you gave rank in SAMBO and TKD, but do you also give rank in your kung fu style? If so, up to what?
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  8. kendamu is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2009 4:23pm


     Style: Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you're awesome at what you do and you're high ranking enough, off-shooting into your own thing isn't really all that horrible. I'm part of USHF Hapkido and that comes from a guy who went about originally taking all the "grab my wrist" stuff and systematizing it into something much easier to learn and making his own Hapkido organization separate from all the Korean stuff.

    Then, later on, the org went about ditching the Forms and making one single footwork drill comprised of all the practical footwork needed that has various blocks and strikes with and without weapons through the belt ranks and turning the high kicks and lunge punches into more practical boxing-like punches and lower-targeted kicks.

    The org also has this whole thing nowadays about how their rank sheets represent the bare minimum and that the teacher can add whatever he wants to it for his students. My instructor is also an instructor in a few other things through a group called Martial Concepts so I've been having to do ground fighting, Filipino knife drills, and other stuff for my belts alongside all the "grab my wrist" stuff that we, at the school, constantly joke about.

    Hell, even the "grab my wrist" stuff gets taught to us from different grabs (elbow, lapel/t-shirt collar, etc.) as we go up the ranks after we understand the basic body movement ideas that come from regrabs, joint locks, and throws starting at "grab my wrist".

    USHF also encourages cross-training in other arts and holds two day-long events per year where guys are brought in from other styles to teach us techniques and concepts that we can take with us back to our local schools. At these events, there's normally meetings at the end of it all with the higher-ups about introducing new stuff into the curriculum officially to make it part of the new "bare minimum" of what schools need to pass on to their students to stay modern, relevant, and practical.

    So, really, creating your own style doesn't really seem to be necessary even if you are the ****. Martial Concepts is an org that brings a few different styles together into their own separate curricula that you can blend together depending on your focus (military/police, MMA, self-defense, etc.) and USHF has roots in "grab my wrist" Hapkido but constantly stresses cross-training and making sure you knock the crap out of the guy with practical striking technique and using jointlocks and throws if the opportunity presents itself instead of making us "dance" with overly compliant partners who'll fall over at the slightest hint of a pre-scripted demo-style joint lock. Neither org is a new style, though. One's just a strict system of cross-training in several distinct styles and the other is a Hapkido-rooted system that constantly brings new ideas in to keep evolving and staying relevant.

    If the people who created Martial Concepts and the USHF wanted to call their stuff a new style then I guess they could fit it together that way, but what's the point? The way they're doing it now works well enough, gives students a clear look at where everything came from, and does it without self-promotions and ego-boosting foreign titles that mean "founder" and "headmaster" and stuff.
  9. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2009 4:55pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    I think this is one of the best ways to proceed if one were to do what you did; can you contrast this with what the ranking system is for your students? Ie, I thought you gave rank in SAMBO and TKD, but do you also give rank in your kung fu style? If so, up to what?
    Yes I give rank in kung-fu. The rank means different things to different people. I've laid the foundation for all to see so that a degree of integrity can be maintained.
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