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  1. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 7:42pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Pre-Assaultive indicators

    A topic that get's discussed in Law Enforcement circles is the detection of something called "pre-assaultive threat indicators".

    The theory is that as a person is placed under the stress of considering launching a physical attack (or fleeing) his body is undergoing certain changes like dumping adrenalin, blood flow restrictions/redirection, elevated oxygenation etc. Combine these physical effects with the psychological pressure of the situation and the person is bound to "leak" indicators that this process is going on.

    Some of the indicators are:

    Avoiding Eye Contact
    The Chest Puff
    Rocking Motion
    Averting the Face
    Boxers Stance
    Clenching of Fists
    Thousand Yard Stare
    Target Glance
    Facial Wipe

    If you are in LE or Security and have to deal with people in these situations; when you see these indicators it is time to act! Put some distance between yourselves and start issuing commands for compliance. I would be getting my OC or taser limbered up and/or tightening the laces on my running shoes. If you are a civilian and you see these cues...leave...if possible. If leaving is not an option, get ready.

    The attached video is a clip from a project put together by a close friend who is a martial arts instructor, a local film artist and myself. It's a project in progress. The idea was to film a series showing a cop not seeing the cues and getting pounded, another where he sees them just in time to react and a third where they are noticed early and the cop acts by deploying OC and issuing commands. Only this part managed to get finished.

    Another thing. We know the "fight" here is lame and unrealistic. The threat indicators were the focus of the piece and we were not willing to roll around on the hot summer pavement for a more realistic "fight".

    YouTube - Threat Indicators

    I'm not saying you should freak just because some guy wipes his face. The idea behind these cues is to take the entire situation into account and look for clusters of behavior. In reality, you will be unlikely to see ALL of these indicators in a person and they will probably not be as blatant or easy to see. The idea here was to show all of the indicators and make them recognizable for instructional purposes.

    I can see the value of this stuff for law enforcement, but some people have argued that for non-LE personnel the common "self defense scenario" is the sudden ambush attack where you wouldn't have the opportunity to see this stuff.

    While they have a point, I think that it doesn't hurt to be aware of this anyway. One never knows what sort of situation they could find themselves in. Being able to identify body language that indicates an imminent attack could give you the opportunity to, at best, "beat feet". Or at worst, allow you to preempt the attack with a defensive measure.
    Last edited by tgace; 10/02/2009 7:52pm at .
  2. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 8:00pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow, I'm pretty sure I do every single one of those at some point in the day when we're stuck in the office.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  3. crawford is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 8:35pm


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would tend to agree with you. Considering the frequency and damage caused by domestic violence situations, through drunk frat boy situations, most people are going to encounter violence from somebody interested in more than a basic mugging or purse snatching. Learning warning signs can help identify when a situation is escalating to the point of violence. Further, as we become more and more service oriented, we have to deal with disgruntled customers. It's nice to know who's blowing off steam and who's getting ready to blow.
  4. Conde Koma is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 10:28pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo,MT,Boxing,BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some further reading by Darren Laur, by way of Ari Bolden (Submissions 101):

    [warning: long post ahead!]

    Is He Ready to Attack?

    'Pain is inevitable; Suffering is optional'.

    - 'Explosive Fight Wear' motto

    Ask any reality-based combat specialist and they'll all say the
    same thing with regards to violent confrontation. The vast majority
    of the time, you will be able to read signs - both verbal and
    non-verbal - that tell you that an attack is on its way. You just
    have to train yourself to notice the signs.

    One such specialist is Darren Laur, who has written fifty articles
    on combat-related material. In one such article - 'Street 101' -
    Mr. Laur describes the pre-cursors to violent behavior. I have
    reprinted them here for you to study:

    'Assault Not Imminent But Possible':
    - Head, neck, shoulders go back (person making themselves look
    bigger)
    - Face is red, twitching, jerking
    - Lips pushed forward, baring teeth (you see the same things in
    dogs before attack)
    - Breathing is fast and shallow (oxygenating the body, preparing
    for 'fight or flight', hyper vigilance)
    - Beads of sweat appear about the face and neck
    - 'Thousand-mile glare'
    - Exaggerated movements
    - Finger pointing/ head pecking
    - Totally ignores you
    - Gives you excessive attention during normal conversation, such as
    direct, uninterrupted eye contact
    - Goes from totally un-cooperative to totally cooperative (people
    do not go from hot to cold, they de-escalate over time)
    - Acts stoned or drunk
    - Directs anger towards other inanimate items such as tables,
    chairs, walls

    If you find yourself confronted by a subject presenting these
    signs, awareness/self-protection strategies should go up, and
    distance should be created. Your body language should be
    assertive, but not threatening and don't be afraid to allow the
    person to vent verbally.

    'Assault Is Imminent':
    - Face goes from red to white (during a physical confrontation the
    blood will leave the surface of the body and pool to the big
    muscles and internal organs of the body needed for survival). In my
    job as a police officer I see this all the time and when I do, one
    of two things is going to happen: the suspect is either going to
    fight or run.
    - Lips tighten over teeth
    - Breathing is fast and deep
    - Change of stance, their body blades and shoulder drops
    - Hands closed into a fist (not uncommon to see the whites of
    knuckles due to hands being so tight)
    - Bobbing up and down or rocking back and forth on feet (this is
    the body's way to hide/ mask the initial movement of a first strike)
    - Target glance (here you will see your opponent look to where he
    is going to hit, or where he is going to run/escape)
    - Putting head and shin down (body wants to protect the airway,
    this action does so to a degree)
    - Eyebrows brought forward into a frown (again the body wants to
    naturally protect the visual system, this action does so to a degree)
    - Stops all movements/ freezes in place
    - Dropping center or lowering of body (no different than a cat or
    dog getting ready to pounce)
    - Shedding clothes (very common, you will see your attacker take
    his hat, coat, shirt or bag off just prior to the assault)
    - One syllable replies (go from full sentences to one syllable
    replies - reptilian brain is clicking in)

    With this group of signs, you have about 1 to 1.5 seconds to act
    before your attacker either strikes or runs. If walking and
    talking your way out is inappropriate or unreasonable, then I teach
    "First Strike" philosophy and continue on with a compound attack
    until your attacker is no longer a threat.
    In both the 'Assault Not Imminent' and 'Assault Imminent' phases, I
    often teach my students (in some situations) to bring to the
    attention of the attacker what they are seeing and why:
    1) The attacker may not know what they are doing. A lot of these
    signs are automatic in nature, meaning they happen without
    conscious thought.
    2) More importantly, most attackers will only attack you if they
    believe they have the element of surprise. By sharing with them
    what you see, you take this primary tactic away from them.

    IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT THERE ARE TIMES WHEN YOU
    SHOULD NOT LET THE PERSON KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SEEING, THUS USING THE
    ELEMENT OF SURPRISE TO YOUR ADVANTAGE!!!!!!!!!!

    (Special thanks to Darren Laur and Personal Protection Systems for
    permission to reprint this excerpt).
  5. ronin497 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 10:59pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Ex-Tomiki Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When I was on legal hold towards the end of my naval career, I did prisoner escorts to/from the brig. One thing we were taught by a couple senior MA's and brig staff was to look for some kind of visible pulsing of the neck veins prior to an attack.

    I never understood how a person could possibly notice something like that.
  6. M.C. is offline
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    This is all I do: girls, photography and BJJ...

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2009 12:34pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: KeyboardHero/CameraJutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I suggest you can also watch chimpanzees intimidating and before fight, they don't bother to hide their body language and you can find a great resemblance in humans. Again, don't focus on single little tales but try to see the big picture. Always, if possible, keep distance and try to remain distance, if your "counter part" closes the distance, warn him and if he proceeds to come towards you, act.

    For civilians, try to use downward facing open palms with a sort of boxing stance, this is the least aggressive, yet save option. For LEO, I don't know, thus I leave the field to the ones who do.

    A friend and SD instructor of mine, who worked as part of the riot police in my home town (nice solid hooligan scene) told me, if you warn them, an show signs of being fight ready and they still come towards you, you can go because their brain is not working at that time, there is no point in talking, prepare and protect yourself.
    Sometimes you lose and sometimes the other guy wins.

    At this point I don't owe anybody an explenation.

    Schools I trained at:
    Lotus Club Cetepe Liberdade Sao Paulo
    Renzo Gracie NYC
    New York Combat Sambo
  7. permahudef is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2009 1:53pm


     Style: BJJ/MuayThai/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ronin497 View Post
    When I was on legal hold towards the end of my naval career, I did prisoner escorts to/from the brig. One thing we were taught by a couple senior MA's and brig staff was to look for some kind of visible pulsing of the neck veins prior to an attack.

    I never understood how a person could possibly notice something like that.
    I notice that on a regular basis. I can't say that I've met anyone else who notices it. Occasionally I've played the creepy card and asked someone "Why did your heartrate just increase?":laughing7
  8. kanegs is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2009 2:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: Se-Jong TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As the parent of a child with autism, some of these indicators jump out at me as being common traits of people on the autistic spectrum:

    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post

    Some of the indicators are:

    Avoiding Eye Contact
    The Chest Puff
    Rocking Motion
    Averting the Face

    Boxers Stance
    Clenching of Fists
    Thousand Yard Stare

    Target Glance
    Facial Wipe
    My daughter has never hurt a soul in her life, but when she's under stress (which sometimes is triggered by the slightest thing), she quite often does many of the indicators which I've underlined. When she was younger (she's now 12), she did them all the time regardless of how she was feeling.

    I know many other parents whose children act similarly. The recent surge of kids on the Autism Spectrum means that soon we will have more adults on the Autism Spectrum.
  9. meataxe is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/03/2009 2:26pm


     Style: Wu style tcc+bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One thing that I had heard from a study (sorry, don't have the source) was that someone who is about to commit an assault is more likely to have their arms hang straight from the sides rather than swinging in a normal walking motion. I think this was in relation to video surveillance.

    Anyone hear anything about this?
    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
    - Voltaire
  10. Lord Skeletor is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/03/2009 4:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well thought-out and put together thread. The whole "target indicators" and "target glances" is actually something that many police are trained to look out for and to take action before a fight begins or a situation can escalate.
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