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  1. searcher66071 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/01/2009 10:06pm


     Style: Karate-knockdown, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ronin497-if you don't like Glocks, then get a little Kahr CW9 or PM9. They work well and are easily concealed. Drawback is magazine capacity.
  2. ronin497 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/01/2009 10:11pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Ex-Tomiki Aikido

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't seem to have any CZ dealers in my area. There's always gun shows. I tell ya, one thing I've learned in reasearching my next purchase is just how much improvement good gunsmithing can have on a firearm. Seems like it can take a good gun and make it a hell of a nail driver.
  3. Lord Skeletor is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/03/2009 4:13pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As a general rule of thumb, unless you're buying a single-action Ruger for Cowboy shoots, or a large-frame revolver for hunting....AVOID RUGER SEMI-AUTOMATIC HANDGUNS LIKE THE PLAGUE.

    As far as your other choices....

    The HK USP is a great piece. You'll like it, it functions well and is pretty accurate.

    The Steyrs work well, but the killer is their pyramidal sights. Screw that noise, man.
    Too difficult under stress to even get a "front sight" sight picture. Precision aiming is balls altogether.

    For comparison, here's what else I'm looking at for a CCW:

    Taurus---many of them work well, but see rant on Rugers. They are backed by a lifetime warranty...but their entire Millennium line is kind of crappy. Stick with their revolvers and you're okay.

    Glock---I'd say go here.

    Springfield XD--going here is even better.

    HK---> Blowing the horn---if you can get here, that'd be just great.

    SIG---> Again, blowing the horn---if you can get here with a used Sig 226/228/220, I'd go here as well with no problems.

    You've got a good operating budget there, so anything middle of the road will do just fine. Just make damn sure you get a caliber that you can afford to shoot/train with.
    That's right....TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN FUCKING AFFORD TO TRAIN WITH THE DAMN THING. Ie, the .45ACP fanboys who exalt the praises of their Browning masterpiece, but bitch about not being able to shoot or train with it because 45ACP is $25.00 per box. If you're poor or on a compromised income, go with 9mm.
  4. ronin497 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2009 11:13pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Ex-Tomiki Aikido

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Skeletor View Post
    AVOID RUGER SEMI-AUTOMATIC HANDGUNS LIKE THE PLAGUE...
    Specifically, why? Have you seen them fail over time? Most of the complaints I've seen regarding the new models is the magazine safety feature breaking if it's dry-fired without one in the well. I need all the specific information about the cons of owning a Ruger semi-auto before I swear off them as a possible solution.

    I really do like Sig Sauer, and I've handled an HK USP before. Both of those are well outside my price range, however. Unless I can find one at a gun show. Which, in Oklahoma, seems to happen every seven minutes.

    When I finally get some time to go to the range, I'll probably give the Glocks / XD's another chance, and I'm seriously considering the CZ P01 suggested above. I've been reading a pretty in-depth review of one broken in over the course of about 2500 rounds or so, and it seems to be one that with some good smithing, breaks in very very well.

    Good Info here folks. Keep 'em coming. I'll probably commit to buying a piece this next weekend.
  5. Lord Skeletor is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2009 3:20pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ronin497 View Post
    Specifically, why? Have you seen them fail over time? Most of the complaints I've seen regarding the new models is the magazine safety feature breaking if it's dry-fired without one in the well. I need all the specific information about the cons of owning a Ruger semi-auto before I swear off them as a possible solution.

    Specifically their "P" series of handguns are crap. They weigh a metric ton and their sights (3 tiny little dots) are crap. Their overall durability has always been a question...which is ironic, considering that their overall makeup and metallurgy have more than a lot in common with an M1A Abrams Battle Tank than a combat handgun. Their triggers are friggin' terrible (even for a DA/SA pistol, they're bad). Their mechanical reliability is not really an issue, as they do go "bang" when you pullllllll that long-ass, terrible trigger.

    The only worse semi-auto was a Smith & Wesson, and they didn't even rate to be mentioned here. Being a departmental armorer and repair technician, I've seen more catastrophic failures and overall failures from Smith autopistols than about any other "quality" semi-automatic pistol line on the market. Smith's quality along these lines died out after their first lines of semi-auto pistols, (the model 39 and 59). From there on out...complete garbage. Notice that I didn't include revolvers here? Because if there is one thing that Smith does well is revolvers. They simply make the best (and most overpriced, btw) revolvers on the market. Many Smith fanboys will rabidly point to the new "M&P" line...which I must admit, does shoot pretty good. But, time will tell if they guns are going to hold up...their track record on automatic pistols literally suck raw moose cock (wow...can I say that in here?).
    Last edited by Lord Skeletor; 10/04/2009 3:28pm at .
  6. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2009 3:28pm

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Skeletor View Post
    As a general rule of thumb, unless you're buying a single-action Ruger for Cowboy shoots, or a large-frame revolver for hunting....AVOID RUGER SEMI-AUTOMATIC HANDGUNS LIKE THE PLAGUE.
    Bah! I absolutely love my Ruger P97. It's reliable, simple to operate, and because all the mags and buttons are just a bit larger, I can reload that thing faster than I can my 1911.

    I don't CCW, but if I were to do so, I'd carry the Ruger P97 instead of my 1911. The Ruger is more reliable, there's no chance I'd forget to un-safety in a panic situation, and I know that it will stand up to the wear of daily carry without a problem. It's also the easiest thing in the world to field strip and clean.

    I don't know why you're complaining about the sights. They're not deluxe or anything, but they're good enough for CCW. I also did well in a target shooting competition using the P97 DC back when it was the only handgun I had. I scored better than a lot of people using glocks. The sights are perfectly adequate, and if you really want to upgrade them Ruger sells some after market sights.

    The only reason I got a 1911 for competition is because the Ruger has a mushy trigger pull, and it recoils a bit harder due to metal slide and polymer base. (IMO Glocks have the exact same problem.) However, every time my 1911 malfunctions during competition I actually consider going back to the Ruger for a moment.
    Last edited by Wounded Ronin; 10/04/2009 3:32pm at .
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Th...%28attorney%29
  7. Lord Skeletor is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2009 3:30pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    Bah! I absolutely love my Ruger P97. It's reliable, simple to operate, and because all the mags and buttons are just a bit larger, I can reload that thing faster than I can my 1911.

    I don't CCW, but if I were to do so, I'd carry the Ruger P97 instead of my 1911. The Ruger is more reliable, there's no chance I'd forget to un-safety in a panic situation, and I know that it will stand up to the wear of daily carry without a problem. It's also the easiest thing in the world to field strip and clean.
    I've never questioned the mechanical reliability of Ruger's autopistols (see post). Just their terrible ergonomics, terrible trigger/sights, and oversized and too-damn heavy weight.

    I will also agree with you that as bad as Ruger pistols are, they are 100,000 times more reliable and preferable to just about any 1911 or 1911-clone. Bottom line.
  8. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/04/2009 3:38pm

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Skeletor View Post
    I've never questioned the mechanical reliability of Ruger's autopistols (see post). Just their terrible ergonomics, terrible trigger/sights, and oversized and too-damn heavy weight.
    But if we're talking CCW, a lot of that stuff doesn't matter. For CCW the most important thing is that something is reliable, easy to use, and concealable. The only "strike" the P series pistol would have against it in that case would be the larger size and heavier weight.
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Th...%28attorney%29
  9. ronin497 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2009 3:21am

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     Style: Ex-Tomiki Aikido

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okie dokie. There's a gun show a-comin' this weekend and I think I'll be in the mood to buy.

    I've got things narrowed down to a variety of manufacturers, and their product that I think will be the best fit for my situation.

    Here they are, in descending MSRP (estimated) order:

    H&K P2000SK - 900.00
    WALTHER P99AS - 799.00
    SIG P250 COMPACT - 750.00
    S&W M&P C9MM - 719.00
    GLOCK 19 - 600.00
    CZ P01 - 550.00
    KAHR CW9 - 549.00
    RUGER SR9 - 499.00
    SPRINGFIELD XD9 - 450.00
    TAURUS MIL-PRO - 441.00
    BERSA THUNDER 9MM - 350.00

    From here, I can narrow it down the ones I actually have experience picking up and handling. I don't want my first handling experience with the gun to be right before I buy it at a gun show. That takes us down to:

    SIG P250
    WALTHER P99
    SPRINGFIELD XD
    RUGER SR9
    GLOCK 19
    TAURUS MILPRO

    From here my pros/cons boil down to price, reliability, size of the weapon WRT conceal-ability and round capacity.

    The SR9 loses on size, it's easily the largest, followed by the Sig. However, it's hard to argue with 17+1 capacity. I should also point out that I have zero experience carrying a firearm concealed, so I don't really know how to wear a rig or even if a guy my size could conceal a weapon as big as the SR9 with my normal jeans/t-shirt wardrobe. (I'm 5'7", 150lb.)

    I'm starting to lean heavily towards the XD or Glock at this point.

    Thoughts?
  10. FictionPimp is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2009 3:25pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I personally love my walthers. I carry a PPS 9mm every day and picked up a walther p99 40 this summer that I plan to wear as my winter carry. I love the mag release on them, I love the way they handle, well I love everything.

    I got to play with the SR9 and it wasn't bad. My wife was hunting for a carry and she ended up picking up a ruger LCP. She wanted something small enough to place in her purse when she was wearing clothing that wouldn't allow a traditional carry. We haven't gotten to shoot the LCP yet due to a lack of 380 ammo in my area. I was only able to get a single box of JHP.

    Honestly, I'd sell my XD9 in a heartbeat to pick up another Walther.
    "a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki
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