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  1. #21

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    964
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by willaume View Post
    Personally I would argue against the “lineage tracing” being something new.
    The lichtanauer tradition is an example of that. It carried through 2 centuries, The “old art of fencing” galore.
    Perhaps I'm overstating the case.

    Nevertheless, it seems that those advertising as teaching in the Liechtenauer tradition weren't attempting to claim a "purity" but merely establish a "stylistic differentiation."

    Again, I could be very wrong, but (right now, anyhow - I reserve the right to change my mind) I don't think so. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk

  2. #22

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    964
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    IMO, specifically re. Les Moore's BKB, purring and catch wrestling (but likewise any similar claimed lineal tradition); if it can be proven, there's a level of historical and cultural value there that is completely independent of how well it works in a fight.
    I completely agree.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk

  3. #23

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    windsor UK
    Posts
    344
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    Perhaps I'm overstating the case.

    Nevertheless, it seems that those advertising as teaching in the Liechtenauer tradition weren't attempting to claim a "purity" but merely establish a "stylistic differentiation."

    Again, I could be very wrong, but (right now, anyhow - I reserve the right to change my mind) I don't think so. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
    hello
    You just as well could be right, mate. In fact I would be fairly certain that is the case for some authors

    We can just see that in 1460 paulus Kal and the “lichtanauer geselschaft” (lichtanauer society) tries to establish who and who can not use the name and establish a lineage via his owm master and the guy that he cite as being proper master of the style.

    In 1443 H Tallhofer claims lineage but in 1459 the linchtanauer lineage has disapered and you do not have the merkverses.

    In my opinion neither the 59 and later talhoffer or paulus Kal follows what we could call the lichtanauer cannon. So even Kal is part of the society I would go with you on that one

    But on the other hand the commenting on lichtanauer merkverse like Ringeck (1430-40) Von dantzig (1450-60), Lew (50-60) lasted until V Speyer1490 and the early 1500 Goliath
    and all of them really comment on the lichty verses.

    As well, in the 16th century, there is definitely a raise in fashion of “the old chivalric way” with Maximillian, Francois the 1st and Henry the 8th being quite keen on the old ways.
    So you have a few book one the old way of fencing.

    phil

  4. #24

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    190
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Maybe the obsession with lineage is an result of feudalism.

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