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  1. hellis is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2008 4:45am


     Style: Traditional Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know that this is an old thread, I see that Grey Owl has still not come forward with anymore proof as promised so many times. His organisations are still making the same false claims on their website.
    " Mr George Mayo is the founder of Kyu-Shin-Do " ROUND OBJECTS !!

    I have written a short article for the website at www.KenshiroAbbe.com on this subject so I thought that it would be a fitting end for this thread.
    What is Kyu-Shin-Do ? by Henry Ellis

    The theory
    of
    KYU – SHIN – DO
    What is KyuShinDo ? And more precisely what it isn’t !!
    Kenshiro Abbe Sensei 1915 – 1985
    by Henry Ellis

    Kyu = Desire – Yearn – Sphere – Circle – Search – Study.
    Shin = Heart – New – Spirit – True – To be true to ones self.
    Do = Way or Path , a way of life or self discipline .
    I honestly believe that Kyu-Shin-Do has lost its true path in Britain and has become many things to many people.
    Kenshiro Abbe Sensei came to Britain in 1955 at the invitation of the London Judo Society ( LJS ).
    He considered the Judo that he saw to be too concerned with strength, also too physical and hard. It was his intent to introduce his theory of Kyu-Shin-Do to the British Judoka. They in turn found it hard to understand that if they followed his teaching of Kyu-Shin-Do Judo which he himself had studied from as early as 1940 their own Judo skills would become stronger by technique rather than strength. Abbe Sensei would often say when speaking of KyuShinDo that “one must have the right mind “. On one occasion he lined up 31 Judoka dan grades, he walked along the line and informed each Judoka what technique he would use, and whether it would be left of right handed. Abbe Sensei then proceeded to throw each and every single one of the 31 students just as he had said. It is worth being reminded that Abbe Sensei was 40 years of age at that time.

    In 1937 Kenshiro Abbe Sensei fought the great Japanese Judo legend Masahiko Kimura, Abbe Sensei beat Kimura and that was Kimura’s only defeat.
    Kimura Sensei said of Abbe Sensei after his defeat
    “It was as if I was fighting a shadow and trying to catch the wind”

    My good friend Gerry Gyngell Sensei said to me on this subject of KyuShinDo “ I believe it is as much about mental attitude as it is technique. I also believe that one can only learn by example and this ( I think ) is why so many failed to understand his teachings as they only looked at the physical and not the mental side of what Abbe Sensei was teaching.
    Yes…….the techniques had to be performed correctly…..
    Yes…….it is not about how strong physically you are….
    More importantly it is not about winning and losing, but about the balance of nature and the attitude of one to another.
    I know this may start to seem that I am bringing in religion to the subject, In a way Budo is a religion but without the worship of a Greater Being etc. You Henry, are fond of Sensei’s saying “ no matter what your pretence , you are what you are and nothing more !” I also believe that Abbe Sensei practiced the old philosophy of “ To thine ownself be true “.
    This is in my opinion a big part of what KyuShinDo is………..
    All nature is a circle, so all correct movement is circular and by blending ( adapting ones technique ) with an opposing movement in an honest and open way the result will be harmony of thought and action………………………
    Gerry Gyngell Sensei was a member of Abbe Sensei’s Olympic squad 1964.
    Three time the Welsh Judo Champion. Also worked in Abbe Sensei’s London office for the British Judo Council…

    I would suggest that the true intention of Abbe Sensei was to teach his students that they too could be as smooth and elusive as a shadow rather than a brick wall..

    Since the passing of Kenshiro Abbe in 1985 there have been so many that now claim to have known him, and to be great personal friends Abbe Sensei. There are now so many, but the worst of these characters is the late George Mayo and sadly his present day followers. Mr Mayo himself shamelessly claimed “ I am the founder of KyuShinDo “ he also later claimed that he `helped` Abbe Sensei to develop Kyu-Shin-Do….These claims are totally fraudulent and an insult the the memory of a great Budo Master.

    I now see the name ` Kyu-Shin-Do ` attached to so many things in the martial arts that I now believe many consider the term to be a ` really good ` sounding Japanese name without a dollop of the concept of understanding of its true meaning.

    From 1957 I attended almost every public Budo demonstration that Abbe Sensei ever took part in. He did on some occasions demonstrate Karate, yet to my knowledge and my associates he never taught Karate other than to teach us how to kick and punch. NEVER ONCE did he ever refer to Karate as “KyuShinDo Karate “ and he never ever taught KyuShinDo Karate……….
    Abbe Sensei invited Harada Sensei to Britain in 1963 to teach Karate for the British Karate Council ( BKC ) Harada Sensei taught Shotokai Karate…

    The same applies to KyuShinDo Aikido. Kenshiro Abbe Sensei introduced Aikido to Britain in 1955 and as a direct student from 1957 I never ever heard the word KyuShinDo used in the teaching or study of Aikido.
    I do believe that when people use and abuse the name of “ Kyu-Shin-Do “ there is a deliberate attempt to imply a connection or relationship to Kenshiro Abbe Sensei.

    It a sad fact that Abbe Sensei was unhappy that so few Judoka were able to understand the teachings and principles of KyuShinDo even though they were receiving his personal tuition.
    Gyngell Sensei stated “I also believe that one can only learn by example !! “
    So how would all these KyuShinDo groups “really “ understand the meaning of KyuShinDo?
    If one places KyuShinDo in the Google browser there are thousands of sites using the name.

    Henry Ellis
    Co-author of Positive Aikido
    http://aikidoellisvideo.magnify.net
    www.geocities.com/britishaikido
    www.KenshiroAbbe.com
    www.EllisAikido.org

    Henry Ellis co-author of Positive Aikido and a direct student of Kenshiro Abbe Sensei from 1957.
  2. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/19/2008 4:52am

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Henry,

    Good to see you're still keeping an eye on this issue.

    Hope you, Derek and your extended martial arts family are well

    Dave
  3. hellis is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2008 6:17am


     Style: Traditional Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Dave

    All is well on the Western front :-)
    I just saw something on the net this morning where a guy signed himself as " 3rd dan KyuShinDo" WTF is that all about. How do you get a dan grade in a theory ??
    Good to see you are still active.
    Take care ,,, Henry
  4. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/19/2008 6:23am

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh aye Henry,

    ...takes more than a bunch of hypocrites to keep me down. ;-)
  5. hellis is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2008 8:03am


     Style: Traditional Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dave

    It takes more than a bunch of hypocrites to keep me down :-)

    You have proved that too many times over the years Dave, they never learn pal......

    Regards

    Henry
  6. hellis is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2010 5:05am


     Style: Traditional Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Dave

    I have recently been contacted by Mrs Teresa Reeve the widow of Bill Reeve Sensei who
    was the first secretary and assistant to Kenshiro Abbe Sensie in 1955. Bill was instrumental in the following development of the BJC ~ BKC ~ BAC.
    Teresa has sent me a whole treasure of old Abbe Sensei photos, over 80 at the moment with more to come. These are now on a slideshow on the Kenshiro Abbe blog
    http://kenshiroabbe.blogspot.com/

    More importantly
    Mrs Reeve is incensed that the MayoShinDo group are using her husbands name and a letter to claim some fabricated connection to Kenshiro Abbe Sensei.

    Statement from Mrs Reeve who was herself a dan grade with Abbe Sensei.



    Dear Henry,

    Thank you for bringing Mr Mayo to my attention and also this letter that his organisation claims proves his close association with Sensei Kenshiro Abbe.

    Yes my husband Bill Reeve, who was BJC secretary at the time, wrote the letter under the express instruction of Mr Abbe. He did not want to write it as Mr G. Mayo was considered an irritating joke, but Mr Abbe hoped that this letter would encourage Mr Mayo and his clubs, I believe he had a couple in Essex at the time, to join the BJC when hopefully they could be introduced to a genuine judo system.

    Mr Abbe did not have a good command of English and used a very limited vocabulary in order to communicate, as those who attended his classes would remember. How could he then spend hours in philosophical discussion as Mr Mayo claims and to what benefit for Kenshiro Abbe,an All Japan Champion to train and practise with George Mayo whose qualifications appear to be self graded and by his own admission non-competitive.

    I also remember the appearance and display given by Mr Mayo and some of his students at York Hall, Bethnal Green. The commentator refused to introduce him and a short silence prevailed which became embarrassing. Eventually he was introduced but as far as I know was never invited to take part in any other judo demonstration arranged by the BJC. He almost appeared to be in fancy dress with numerous gold flashes on his belt denoting his "grade" I presume. Already equal to Mr Abbe!

    Unfortunately, the key people here have all passed on and I only have my memory to rely upon. I never met Mr Mayo but I do remember my husband speaking of him and his judo "system" in a less than favourable way. This is the truth of the matter and his claim to friendship with Mr K.Abbe is insulting to the memory of a man who excelled in all aspects of the martial arts. I can't help but believe that Mr Mayo was attempting to achieve some reflected glory.

    Kind regards

    Teresa Reeve
    This letter is now on http://kyu-shin-do.blogspot.com/
  7. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/13/2010 6:57am

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Henry..

    I think given the extended period of time that people have been afforded to provide the information they suggested existed, a write-up here is in order.

    I'll start a draft in a couple of days when I've had time to re-read the thread and vist a few of the MSD websites.

    Dave
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  8. hellis is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2010 7:31am


     Style: Traditional Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Despite several promises to furnish ``several bin bags `` full of proof Mr Collins and other MayoShinDo people have failed.
    I will add below a letter on this issue from Robin Otani Sensei President of the BJC.

    Dear Harry,

    Happy New Year
    Thanks for your e-mail.

    The only George Mayo I know was invited to do a short display at one of Abbe Sensei's events in early 60's 1960-61? It was possibly at York Hall in E. London.

    He was then purporting to be a 'Master' of 'Ju-Judo' which was his form of a 'Gentle Gentle Way' of doing Judo.

    His display was in my opinion 'laughable' he only did light randori type practice with Juniors and he explained there was no contest allowed in his form of judo.

    He wore a Gold embroidered black belt, I think it had Dragons on it, which I also thought was laughable.

    At this time I was secretary of the BJC and to my knowledge Mr. George Mayo was never invited again to Abbe Sensei's events. I also recall Abbe sensei's opinion of Mr. Mayo ability was of low . I believe Abbe Sensei's tolerance was only because he had been invited to do courses for Mr. Mayo.

    Of course I have met many people who say they do Abbe Sensei Judo but I have seen none who could prove it in combat 'on the mat'.

    Over the years Mr. Mayo's name has cropped up and we have had the occasional member join the BJC from his organisation.

    I know nothing more of his history or his credentials except that he is unknown and unrecognised in the Judo world known to the BJC.

    I would refute any suggestions that he had anything to do with Abbe Sensei's creation of the Kyu Shin Do theory which was totally conceived by Abbe Sensei from his renowned experience of Judo.

    I think this can also be held up by the fact that the philosophy of Kyu Shin Do (Harmony with the Universe) is very close to the Japanese Buddhist and Shinto religious thinking and today it is difficult to see exactly what is the philosophical difference between Kyu Shin Do and Jigoro Kano's Kodokan theory of Judo.

    However, Abbe Sensei was adamant that on the mat, practical Kyu Shin Do Judo movements were superior, being based on the circular movements of the Universe, whilst Kodokan was a more linear theory. Myself and all those others who were privileged to experience randori with Abbe Sensei have never doubted that his Judo was the best.

    Unfortunately since Abbe sensei's death, I know of no one with his practical randori/contest ability who could prove the superiority of Kyu Shin Do Judo.

    None of his students ever reached his ability and although they may have been trained by Abbe Sensei they could not mirror his judo ability in randori and contest.

    Consequently Kyu Shin Do only lives on as a philosophy of a great and revered Judo Master.

    I hope this is of help.

    Yours sincerely

    Robin Otani
    President of the British Judo Council
  9. Gerry San is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/02/2010 11:46am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kyu Shin Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hello Grey Owl,I have to tell you that I have visited the Mayo Shin Do site and not yet seen any letter.Furthermore if you visit the Kyu Shin Do blog you will see irrefutable proof of Mayos NON-INVOLVEMENT in Kyu Shin Do.I have also requested Collins to furnish copies of these "Proofs" he says that he has or to at least post them on their website.To date a big fat NOTHING !!!I was student of Abbe Sensei and I am(along with others) disgusted by the people who abuse his memory with all this crap!!!!!.Gerry San 3rd Dan.
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