Kyu Shin Do - Australian modern Kinesiologic self-defence

**hellis** · Posted On: 1/02/2007 5:46pm

David Humm.

I am not at all surprised that you have heard nothing from Mr Collins of MayoShinDo.
The more I look into these bizarre claims the more I realize that the claims are nothing but a load of round objects.

I contacted Brian Cloynes Sensei who was one of Abbe Sensei's top Judoka. Cloynes Sensei is/was the National Judo Coach for New Zeland. He took the NZ team to the LA Olympics. A highly respected Judoka. I asked if he knew of Mr Mayo, his reply is below...

Hi Harry
Happy 2007 make it a great one!
Regarding Mayo, I only have heard his name and had no consequences. Sorry I can not enlighten you further.
Regards From Brian

I have also contacted Robin Otani Sensei President of the British Judo Council. He gave me the following information.

Dear Harry
I remember that Mr Mayo contacted the BJC and Abbe Sensei in an attempt to becoming associated with the BJC in some way. Abbe Sensei had a planned display at the York Hall in East London in about 1961. He asked Mr Mayo to carry out a small display at this event.
Mr Mayo did a display with children/juniors of what he called JuJudo + Gentle Gentle Way ?
Abbe Sensei was not impressed and that was the last event that Mr Mayo was ever invited to. Otani Sensie is in posession of all the original records of the MOSJ and the BJC. There are no records of Mr Mayo being a member of either organisation or receiving grades from either organisation. The above information is the sum total of Mr Mayo's association with Abbe Sensie.

I see on Wikipedia that Mr Mayo has a page where it states " Mr Mayo moved to London in 1956 where he studied Karate with Harada Sense. I should point out that Harada Sensie did not arrive in the UK until 1963 from Brazil. Abbe Sensei brought him to the famous Hut Dojo where he taught a regular class for several years. I was a senior instructor at the Hut at this time and trained with Harada Sensie, there was never a student named Mayo.

Henry Ellis

**OnceLost** · Posted On: 1/03/2007 7:17am

"Curiouser and curiouser!" cried Alice...

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 1/03/2007 9:07am

I'm sure this isn't a unique phenomenon, budoka attempting to claim legitimacy/lineage from deceased Japanese instructors.

I haven't any conclusive proof relating to George Mayo and, if I'm honest, I have no real desire to investigate the man, he's sadly deceased however; Kenshiro Abbe, being the pivotal figure he is in relation to many budo introduced/developed in the United Kingdom, has seen several people attempt to claim an association/friendship with a man who was renown for being quite an eccentric, a person who spoke only limited English and his status allegedly sadly abused in the latter part of his life by a few unscrupulous people who had Abbe Sensei sign certification for grades which were ultimately illegitimate.

The problem with these people, is that they forget the fact there are still a number of budoka alive today who were genuine students of Abbe Kenshiro in 1955 and onwards who were close associates within the realms of the arts he taught and, more importantly, can verify who actually did train/grade under Abbe when he was resident in the UK.

Beyond being given any conclusive evidence to the contrary; I have absolutely no reason to doubt the collective words of those genuine people, people I have met and know as trustworthy individuals.

**Don Gwinn** · Posted On: 1/03/2007 10:09am

Originally Posted by Grey Owl

Ripping the throat out was an exaggeration

No, really?
It was, of course, obvious that you were exaggerating. At least you admit it.

"Adapt" in that text means just what it says. Adapt to it. These are not big adaptations we're talking about here. I've been bitten and eye gouged and kneed in the groin plenty of times playing American football. I have never been stopped by any of those magical dirty tricks--and that was a football game. Admittedly, the bites were peripheral--biting the hands and fingers in piles is about all you can manage with a face mask on--but it's just not convincing.

BJJ standard adaptations to the "dirty street fighter:"

TEH DEADLY EYE GOUGE--Usually the last desperate attempt to escape mount. Go to high mount, sit up, punch opponent in face. Look for arm bars and such if you like.
TEH DEADLY GROIN STRIKE--Keep moving, beat his ass, ice your junk when you get home.
TEH DEADLY BITE--Beat his ass so he learns not to bite people. If he tries to bite your throat, Ezekiel or a dozen other things. If he's biting and you're choking, guess who's actually going out?
TEH DEADLY RIPPING OUT OF THE THROAT--Beat his ass. Send a letter to his jail cell explaining that he is not Dalton from Road House and the only way to regain his honor is seppuku.

*Note: For Muay Thai and Boxing, substitute "Beat his ass a lot" for all four scenarios. Those guys are just uncivilized.

**Grey Owl** · Posted On: 1/03/2007 5:38pm

I have absolutely no doubt that a "sports fighter" could take the vast majority of assholes in a "real fight" I wouldn't contest that, hell if I did, I wouldn't be doing judo.

I'm just worried about the possibility that future generations training will only be a sport and these issues will be unaddressed. I don't have a problem with current training it is just dismissing potentially dibilitating techniques is a worrying trend on this site and elsewhere.

Dave

I haven't had a reply yet either!

I did find extensive footage of a Japanese instructor on a MSD traditional weapons DVD I have but as I was about 9 years of age when it was filmed and I don't have any any personal knowledge of it! If I find his name I will pass it on but I feel I have little expertise in this particular field.

I have sent a critique of the site to Mr Collins and made suggestions for change (Mr Mayo's credentials, Connections with Mr Abbe etc) but like yourself I await a reply.

**Grey Owl** · Posted On: 1/03/2007 5:56pm

Don Gwinn and OnceLost

Sorry I missed your comments before my last post. I think you have answered most of my concerns, thank you.

Hellis

Thank you for the info regarding East London display.

No Wikipedia entry has been set up by any Mayo Shin Do student/practitioner and, last I looked, his name is under the Kyu Shin Do entry; set up by Kyu Shin Do practitioners. So inaccuracies don't surprise me.

**Gerry San** · Posted On: 1/04/2007 7:08am

I think that the last post by Hellis just about wraps up the whole May-Kyu Shin Do story .If there are still any doubters out there I would suggest you go to www.KenshiroAbbe.com and read the article there on this thread.If Grey Owl would like to contact me I would be only too happy to help clear things up.
To thine ownself be true.
Gerry San

**Grey Owl** · Posted On: 1/04/2007 12:23pm

Yeh it wraps it up. No we haven't heard of him...yes we have!

The current BJC/BJA attitude to independent judo in the UK and other factors make me question the motives here.

If this is the attitude Mr Collins gets then I can't say I blame him. The information will be made available on the MSD website in the next few months so I doubt he will respond.

Gerry San

Thanks, sounds interesting.

**hellis** · Posted On: 12/13/2007 5:49pm

It is now almost one year since `Grey Owl ` promised that within a few months we would hear from Mr Collins the head of the MayoShinDo group. We were promised the proof that their bizarre claims of some form of lineage or association with Kenshiro Abbe Sensei would be proved. Dave Humm, Gerry Gyngell and myself ( Henry Ellis ) have heard nothing from Mr Collins or any other other member of their organisation.

We were also promised that this elusive proof would be displayed on their website, I have just checked, once again, nothing.

The whole of Grey Owls false claims in support of the MayoShinDo crowd throughout this thread have justified my article about MayoShinDo on my " www.KenshiroAbbe.com " website .

Henry Ellis
Direct student to Kenshiro Abbe Sensei
Admin: www.KenshiroAbbe.com

**Gerry San** · Posted On: 12/14/2007 4:50am

As hellis says NOONE has seen any proofs that were supposed to be shown ANYWHERE so I geuss that we can be assured that it should be renamed Bullshit Mayo Shin Do.