Posted On:10/06/2009 1:23am
Style: Ex-Tomiki Aikido
Originally Posted by Sikaranista
This clip strikes me instead as sensationalism that was produced specifically for one of the ratings sweeps.
Sweeps typically bring out things like:
The charming old couple that's been together 80 years
The door man at the downtown hotel that's been on the job for 50 years
Threats to your children you've never even considered
City Council Hijinks
And above all else, the complete breakdown of critical thinking and rationalism amongst local newsrooms.
It's a few weeks' worth of weak journalism in the name of wooing advertising dollars from the big-ass local car megalot who's on the fence between you and another station.
Take those overly dramatic, heavily promoted local news expose pieces you see in March and November with a grain of salt.
As far as gangs in the military go, I never really saw it. I mean, there were a handful of guys on my ship that used to bang, but they never talked about it. (I was on an Arleigh Burke. 325 crew tops. Not really big enough for a gang, and too much work to go around.) Carriers and large-deck amphibs have had sets of gangs operate - like on the JFK for example - but I don't really know if they were ever actively linked to any outside criminal organizations.
OMGs tend to have a well-represented veteran presence, but I'm not sure how true that is anymore, and I've never heard of any OMG actively trying to infiltrate the military, although I wouldn't put it beyond any of them.
Also, one of the largest and most prevalent dangerous Latin gangs, MS-13, already has a great deal of paramilitary experience in its upper and mid-level ranks. It's possible some of these guys may have even been trained by the US back when.
I remember reading LES minutes/briefs from some of the service criminal investigative agencies about heightened concern about street gangs infiltrating the military and bringing back combat expertise and in some cases, stealing weapons. I don't remember hearing about any specific incidents, however.
Last edited by ronin497; 10/06/2009 1:32am at .
Posted On:10/06/2009 9:20am
Style: BJJ, MT, MMA, CQB
I remember seeing a pretty good program on cable about gangs in the military a while back. They brought up some specific instances of where gang members joined to gain combat experience or folks who fell in with a bad crowd after joining.
I believe it was part of the "Gangland" series on the History channel.
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Posted On:10/06/2009 11:24am
Yes there are bangers in the military. Always have been. They range from former bangers trying to turn their life around to active bangers looking to recruit. In TRADOC I dealt with many of the latter. I have also dealt with the former. My first PSG (as an LT) was a former banger. He turned his life around has a family, kids, and no intention of returning to that life. He was honest about his prior activities and it did cause some problems when he tried for jobs that required a higher security clearance. Bangers very very rarely make it into things like Special Forces because it requires a background check and pple have been "non-selects" at SF Assessment because of something in their past. However, being infantry or most combat arms MOS don't require a thorough background check and that's where weapons and tactics play a big part.
Most of the time bangers looking to get skills or recruit others don't make it past OSUT/AIT. They usually get found out during a health and welfare or get ratted out by other joes. As an NCO I have had to escort bangers, and general **** ups, to prison. As an officer I have chapter-ed several out of the service. Some do slip through the cracks and get into the army. When I was in Germany I came to work an saw CID escorting a mechanic out of the motorpool turned out he belonged to a white supremacist group and CID was tipped of by the FBI when they were investigating the murder one of the leaders. Sad part was I wasn't too surprised because it wasn't the first time I ran into such things. Also one of the biggest heads in the BD's was a female soldier stationed at Fort Hood, TX. She had so much power that even before she got busted I was warned of her even though I was being stationed in a different state but still within her reach.
Anyways, this clip is more hype than anything. First off it starts with an AWOL marine. That alone establishes this person as a **** up. While there is a gang problem don't expect the streets to be flooded by a bunch of super trained commando bangers. Not going to happen.
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!
Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
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Posted On:10/06/2009 2:00pm
Style: Shotokan/Shorin Ryu
Like Gezere said AWOL Marine ,
And like some one else correctly said MS-13 alot of the older ones have military training from the El Salvador Civil War .
Im sure there is a perecentage of bangers but Id venture to say very very small.
Thats not to say there hasnt been criminals that were ex military
Platt and Matrix of the FBI shoot out infamy were ex military .
Lee harvey Oswald , Charles Whitman as well
But far from being indictment of our military it is indictment of sick individuals who would have been killers even if they had no military .
Move along citizen ,nothing to see here !!!!!
Posted On:10/09/2009 5:05am
For all I know, the portuguese military don't have a gang problems...and even less in the special forces, as the requirements to enter would probably weed out the ordinary portuguese gang member.
Our so called "gang problem" is first of all a racial problem, mainly because 90% of gang members are descendents of the african people that moved to Portugal from several war fronts (different countries), after the end of our colonial war. A first, most lived in slums in the suburbs of major cities, but in the mid 90's, the goverment started tearing the slums down and housing them in the projects around the city.
So we have a second generation of people still suffering from the aftermath of the colonial war (racism, agressions, exclusion) and choosing a life of petty crime and sometimed big crime. I went to school with a couple of them, some went on to bad things and some to good things. Some joined the police force and some joined the military, even special forces. But every single one of them just left their old life behind.
Posted On:10/09/2009 1:20pm
Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but the the basic operations of the MS13 sem to run along the lines of a self funded terrorist organization. identified territories with objectives, discrete operational cells, revenue development via drug tafficking, extortion, etc. The overall outcome seems to be the growth and maintenance of a non-national state. I'm just sayin.
That being said, only Darwin award nominees bring pointy fingers to a "war".
A really good paper, esp for those in the US South is" The Transnationalization of the Central American Gangs: Permeating the Deep South?" and covers some of the aspects discussed.
edited to add paper
Last edited by BadUglyMagic; 10/09/2009 2:02pm at .
Posted On:10/09/2009 11:31pm
To go back to the OP, given development and maturity of organized "gang" activity and a trend toward modeling the revenue operations using business type rules; Why would bangers not recruit or join to gain a military or applied force skill sets?
Business is war or war is business. Developing a force projection capability beyond straight drive-bys and ambushes is a natural evolution. Most may be weeded out but a few may still get through. The outcome is they get paid to develop the skill set and then can go back and train other members in those skill sets.
Agree, disagree, other feelings?
BJJ wins again!
Posted On:10/13/2009 10:59am
I heard Michael Corleone was some kind of war hero back in The Big One.
Posted On:10/13/2009 10:58pm
Style: BJJ, Striking, TKD
I was an MP on MCAS Iwakuni, Japan. We had a small gang problem in Iwakuni once. They were pretty well organized and were involved in some small time criminal activity, but they didn't have guns and weren't involved in paramilitary shootouts with us or the JPs. They had a nifty set up for bringing LSD from CONUS to Japan through the Marines that worked in the supply MOS. They went under the radar for a while until they started getting cocky and decided to sport military uniform/items in civilian attire.
I did a field interview on a guy who was wearing a camo bandana TuPac style with Brigadiere General stars on the ends. CID picked up on it and from there it became a big issue both on and off base. We ended up doing a big sweep of the base, taking in all of the people involved. The guy with the stars got 8 months in the brig. I remember the day he did his indoc to the brig and how he went from being a hardass to crying. Not so tough. He ended up being on suicide watch for a large portion of his stay in the brig.
I've heard that there was more activity on Camp Pendleton, but I was never stationed there.
Posted On:10/14/2009 1:53am
Originally Posted by 7thSamurai
I remember the day he did his indoc to the brig and how he went from being a hardass to crying. Not so tough. He ended up being on suicide watch for a large portion of his stay in the brig.
Fantastic. I did some prisoner escort training in Norfolk when I was at the RSO. (Basically a unit for people awaiting transit to deployed ships or on legal hold like I was.) I never got called on to escort anyone, but once during the training we were out on the smoke deck on break, and saw two or three E-2's getting hauled in. Chest's puffed out, mean-mugging, all that.
Saw one of them two hours later at the end of the day. He looked rather like he'd had his place in the universe explained to him at maximum volume.
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