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  1. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 10:18am

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophist View Post
    Assuming we're both talking about Hidehiko Yoshida, Hunt went on to defeat Wanderlei and Crocop,
    Because Crocop kickboxed with him and Wanderlei did the same. Look at Hunt's record and tell me submitting him is a world-beating feat. The only noted submission fighter who didn't tap him was a broken-down and undersized TK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sophist View Post
    and when Frye went down to Yoshida it was only his second ever loss. Admittedly it came six years after Frye's UFC successes, but Frye had chalked up a number of wins post UFC before meeting Yoshida.
    The most impressive of which was a narrow decision over an already-irrelevant Ken Shamrock.

    I'd suggest that while he's aging now, his early record bears favourable comparison with Akiyama's;
    He never beat a top-level fighter and his career was designed around freak-show fights, not climbing the ladder. Akiyama fought Kang when he was widely considered top 5 and knocked him out. Yoshida doesn't have a single comparable victory on his resume.

    on the other hand, MMA has come on a long way in the last decade and while reasonable grappling was enough to give Yoshida fairly high level victories back in 2004, more is perhaps needed to compete at high levels these days.
    What's 'fairly high level'?

    The UFC 205 champ in 2001 was Tito, who would have crushed Yoshida and everyone he's ever beaten.

    Edited to add:
    If we are going to go with "Akiyama is better than Yoshida at everything - applies his judo more slickly, strikes better, etc" and consider that Wandy barely scraped through in his last win against Yoshida at a period much closer to his prime, it doesn't seem to me that the logical conclusion is, "Obviously Akiyama's going home in a body bag."
    I didn't make that conclusion. Much as I'm a Wanderlei fan I think he's probably going to lose this fight.
  2. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 10:33am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    He never beat a top-level fighter and his career was designed around freak-show fights, not climbing the ladder. Akiyama fought Kang when he was widely considered top 5 and knocked him out. Yoshida doesn't have a single comparable victory on his resume.
    Comparisons noted. And yeah, Akiyama took care of Kang pretty swiftly, which has to count for something.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    I didn't make that conclusion. Much as I'm a Wanderlei fan I think he's probably going to lose this fight.
    That wasn't directed at you, but the earlier posters in the thread. Look back to the start and you'll see plenty of claims that Akiyama is more or less a dead man walking...
  3. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 10:52am

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     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Akiyama has KO power but vastly overrated striking. His defense is shitty, which is why he's been out for ages with injuries whenever he spends any significant time striking with people. He's never checked a leg kick in his career, and the only ranked fighter he's ever legitimately beaten is Kang, whose entire career has been a history of dominating fights and then dumbassing his way into a loss.

    Akiyama barely scraped out a split decision win over Alan Belcher in a match where he got hit so often he broke his face and yet again fucked up his knee. Even having lost a step, Wanderlei Silva is on a different level than Alan Belcher. If he doesn't completely **** up the weight cut he's going to tear Akiyama a new asshole.
    Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.
  4. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 12:10pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa View Post
    Akiyama has KO power but vastly overrated striking. His defense is shitty, which is why he's been out for ages with injuries whenever he spends any significant time striking with people. He's never checked a leg kick in his career, and the only ranked fighter he's ever legitimately beaten is Kang, whose entire career has been a history of dominating fights and then dumbassing his way into a loss.

    Akiyama barely scraped out a split decision win over Alan Belcher in a match where he got hit so often he broke his face and yet again fucked up his knee. Even having lost a step, Wanderlei Silva is on a different level than Alan Belcher. If he doesn't completely **** up the weight cut he's going to tear Akiyama a new asshole.
    I changed the author on this to reflect my opinion.
  5. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 1:16pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting Cephalopod View Post
    Akiyama barely scraped out a split decision win over Alan Belcher in a match where he got hit so often he broke his face and yet again fucked up his knee. Even having lost a step, Wanderlei Silva is on a different level than Alan Belcher. If he doesn't completely **** up the weight cut he's going to tear Akiyama a new asshole.
    Akiyama also elected to stand and brawl with Belcher even after it was apparent he could take him down pretty much at will. He may not be so confident of his striking going up against Silva, and if he goes for the takedown aggressively enough and often enough and actually follows up on it, I think he might eke out a win yet. Probably not by submission though.

    But to repeat my earlier question: how do you feel Akiyama compares to Hidehiko Yoshida? Wanderlei very barely scraped through that last match with Yoshida even if you consider the decision the right call.
  6. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 1:37pm

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     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophist View Post
    Akiyama also elected to stand and brawl with Belcher even after it was apparent he could take him down pretty much at will.
    That's because the first time he took down Belcher he got swept and ate a bunch of punches from the bottom, making him less confident about his ground game. He only started going for takedowns again after he got so lumped up on the feet that he had no other option.

    But to repeat my earlier question: how do you feel Akiyama compares to Hidehiko Yoshida? Wanderlei very barely scraped through that last match with Yoshida even if you consider the decision the right call.
    Yoshida was a dominant gold-medalist and multiple-time world-champ judoka who was a large lhw (large enough to fight frequently at heavy). Akiyama was a one-time Asian champion who did well but not exceptionally in international competition, and is a medium-sized welterweight fighting at middle.

    And Wanderlei in no way "barely scraped through" the Yoshida fight. The only reason it was even a split decision was the fact that it took place in Japan. Wandy was never in danger, worked him on the feet, and almost submitted him on the ground.
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  7. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 10:33pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting Cephalopod View Post
    Yoshida was a dominant gold-medalist and multiple-time world-champ judoka who was a large lhw (large enough to fight frequently at heavy). Akiyama was a one-time Asian champion who did well but not exceptionally in international competition, and is a medium-sized welterweight fighting at middle.
    He also had very little by the way of striking defence, or indeed effective striking. And yeah, he was pretty large-framed for a former -78 kg competitor and could soak up a lot of punishment. His judo in the ring looked rather less flamboyant than Akiyama's, but then he was often fighting tougher opposition. It seems to me rather like a "more rounded"/"tougher" argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting Cephalopod View Post
    And Wanderlei in no way "barely scraped through" the Yoshida fight. The only reason it was even a split decision was the fact that it took place in Japan. Wandy was never in danger, worked him on the feet, and almost submitted him on the ground.
    I went back and rewatched the fight to make sure I wasn't making a mistake, and I was; Yoshida got the best of the first round and ended strongly, but stalled through the second and was outstruck for most of the third. I don't think Wanderlei was in with any real chance of subbing him though, any more than he was in danger of being choked out at the end.
    http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Wand...a?vid=10002604
  8. Conde Koma is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 10:45pm

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     Style: Judo,MT,Boxing,BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interview at what I think is the same event, apparently he and Anderson made up:
    YouTube - Wanderlei Silva, post surgery, talks Anderson Silva and next fight - MMA30.com exclusive
  9. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/03/2009 1:29am

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     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophist View Post
    He also had very little by the way of striking defence
    Neither does Akiyama. Unlike Yoshida he has KO power so his striking offense is at least somewhat effective, but his defense is pretty much nonexistent, which is why every time he has a match where he stays standing for any significant length of time he winds up on the shelf for six months with multiple injuries.
    Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.
  10. SaintHamish is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2009 2:38am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It is really obvious that Wanderlei wants to make an impact with the new breed of up and coming MMA superstars as well as create a stable of his own......It would be quite an expereince to work with someone of his calibre....
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