Wand

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 10/01/2009 11:05am

Originally Posted by Sophist

You, uh, saw the Akiyama-Manhoef fight?

I'd think if anyone is at "Wand's level of aggressiveness", it's Manhoef. At least until he leaves his feet...

Exactly, the Manhoef fight does not make Akiyama's chances against Wand look good. Akiyama was getting tagged bad on the feet and Wand wouldn't be finished so easily on the ground.

**Kid Miracleman** · Posted On: 10/01/2009 11:08am

Originally Posted by Sophist

You, uh, saw the Akiyama-Manhoef fight?

I'd think if anyone is at "Wand's level of aggressiveness", it's Manhoef. At least until he leaves his feet...

I doubt it'll turn out that bad for Wandy if it goes to the ground. Manhoef's a fish out of water when he's on his back, but Silva's a BJJ black belt, so I don't think he has a lot to worry about in that regard.

**theotherserge** · Posted On: 10/01/2009 11:09am

Not to nuthug but, has anyone finished Wandy on the ground? I'm not enough of a fanboy to keep track of this stuff...

**PointyShinyBurn** · Posted On: 10/01/2009 11:12am

Definitely never been submitted and never been TKO'd due to GnP either IIRC.

**Sophist** · Posted On: 10/01/2009 3:33pm

Out of interest, how do people feel Akiyama compares to Yoshida as a fighter?

**SaintHamish** · Posted On: 10/01/2009 8:46pm

Originally Posted by theotherserge

Not to nuthug but, has anyone finished Wandy on the ground? I'm not enough of a fanboy to keep track of this stuff...

He has never been submitted.....Wanderlei himself has only won one of his fights by submission, I think it was early 2000 in Pride via Rear Naked....

**Conde Koma** · Posted On: 10/02/2009 12:59am

I think peoples' past respect and admiration for Wand's accomplishments (not that he doesn't deserve it) is making them tip the fight to his favor prematurely. As it's been mentioned in the thread, Wand first has to make weight (and do it well), make weight at a lower weight class, and then he still has his ring age to contend with. Akiyama, by comparison, is in the prime of his career and hungry for competition in the UFC

Originally Posted by Sophist

Out of interest, how do people feel Akiyama compares to Yoshida as a fighter?

I'm assuming you're talking about Yoshiyuki Yoshida, fellow judoka? I think YY is more of a clever fighter, fighting more strategically. Akiyama's a grappler, but he sure does like to brawl.

**Sophist** · Posted On: 10/02/2009 5:35am

Originally Posted by Conde Koma

I'm assuming you're talking about Yoshiyuki Yoshida, fellow judoka? I think YY is more of a clever fighter, fighting more strategically. Akiyama's a grappler, but he sure does like to brawl.

Nope, Hidehiko Yoshida, who fought judo in roughly the same weight classes as Akiyama many years ago, and gave Wandy a real run for his money in the two fights they had (both went to decision, the second a split).

Some thoughts of my own:
Yoshida had the higher qualifications as a judoka (although Akiyama's throwing has if anything looked more impressive in the cage to date).
Akiyama is a more rounded fighter, with striking skills beyond the judo haymaker.
Yoshida's ability to take punishment was simply incredible, Akiyama's is less of a known quantity. Akiyama's face puffs up pretty easily, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll go out of the fight at the first flurry of punches.
Yoshida fought tougher fighters - defeating Frye and Hunt, losing to Wandy closely, losing to Crocop and Barnett.
Yoshida packed on a lot of weight after his early judo career and walks around a lot heavier than Akiyama does.

**PointyShinyBurn** · Posted On: 10/02/2009 5:54am

Originally Posted by Sophist

Out of interest, how do people feel Akiyama compares to Yoshida as a fighter?

Akiyama is a lot better than Yoshida at everything, is actually fighting in a reasonable weight class and is looking to compete at the highest level rather than just for the payday/promotional marketing.

Yoshida is doubtless tough as hell, but all his wins are against cans or people well passed their sell-by dates.

**Sophist** · Posted On: 10/02/2009 9:24am

Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn

Akiyama is a lot better than Yoshida at everything, is actually fighting in a reasonable weight class and is looking to compete at the highest level rather than just for the payday/promotional marketing.

Yoshida is doubtless tough as hell, but all his wins are against cans or people well passed their sell-by dates.

Assuming we're both talking about Hidehiko Yoshida, Hunt went on to defeat Wanderlei and Crocop, and when Frye went down to Yoshida it was only his second ever loss. Admittedly it came six years after Frye's UFC successes, but Frye had chalked up a number of wins post UFC before meeting Yoshida. I'd suggest that while he's aging now, his early record bears favourable comparison with Akiyama's; on the other hand, MMA has come on a long way in the last decade and while reasonable grappling was enough to give Yoshida fairly high level victories back in 2004, more is perhaps needed to compete at high levels these days.

On the other hand, Wandy has lost five of his last six fights, has hardly been dominant since his last war against Yoshida back in 2005, and may not be as prepared to compete at modern levels as we'd like to believe. He's been fighting tougher opposition than Akiyama has, which makes me less than eager to jump to conclusions, but I'm reluctant to bet on a slaughter by Wandy.

Edited to add:
If we are going to go with "Akiyama is better than Yoshida at everything - applies his judo more slickly, strikes better, etc" and consider that Wandy barely scraped through in his last win against Yoshida at a period much closer to his prime, it doesn't seem to me that the logical conclusion is, "Obviously Akiyama's going home in a body bag."