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  1. Mantis is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/04/2007 7:51pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary Proof , Mantis.


    "Accordingly there is a body of evidence that seems to support their Hypothesis about their claims…they have oral, written, artifacts and complex techniques that can not be ignored."

    Link to this written artifact proof on their board please. As far a techniques go, there are only so many ways to punch, throw, and grapple with someone. Similar techniques is not particularly reliable proof. Oral history is often particularly unreliable, once it becomes more then one person removed from the person who experienced the event. .
    Yes but when a collaboration of the evidence suggests that the oral history is true reliability goes up. When the method of punching, throwing or grappling are completely different and unique to a certain local, reliability of the claim must be look at. The Board is shut down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    "In fact some of their stories about Ethiopian and Kushite history have only been recently uncovered, remember these stories have been around for some time

    By which scholars? Please provide their full name and university affiliation..".

    I don't have all the information you want but I can say one of the scholars name is Bruce Williams and his disoveries of the elite A-Group Cenetery L at Qustul in Lower Nubia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    ""I think it is a big coincidence that they are practicing in some instances the same techniques that are practiced by certain tribes today...how would they know such particulars
    See my reply above. ?".".
    See my reply above.


    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    """Now that doesn’t prove 6,000, but it is interesting." Thank you for conceding this point..
    You are welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    """"There is Caucasian family that has used an Ethiopian title since the Civil War. In fact the title they use is the highest title that can be bestowed upon a civilian. Well now according to Jones they live in Hattiesburg, but once they lived in Jones County during the Civil War. The Son of this family is a famous person; I will not detail it here. I’ve seen old letters that indicate particulars about Ethiopian Royalty that were not know until 1930’s."

    Since the original document or even a scan will not be provided for analysis, its specifics concerning Ethiopian Royalty cannot be double checked, and fail historical standards re reliability.
    I agreed, but it will be presented.
      #641
  2. Mantis is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/04/2007 7:55pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mr. Samuel Browning,

    Thank you for the discussion. I have to go now, but there is more, much more. I will reply fully after I compile my notes.

    Thank you!
      #642
  3. Sam Browning is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/04/2007 8:04pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis
    Yes but when a collaboration of the evidence suggests that the oral history is true reliability goes up. When the method of punching, throwing or grappling are completely different and unique to a certain local, reliability of the claim must be look at. The Board is shut down.

    I don't have all the information you want but I can say one of the scholars name is Bruce Williams and his disoveries of the elite A-Group Cenetery L at Qustul in Lower Nubia.



    I agreed, but it will be presented.
    If the board is shut down, then please reproduce the claim that is relevant to Mr William's work here. If not please supply a link to the relevant section in which the claim is made.

    As far as the letter goes, when will it be presented? Or authenticated? Certainly its paper should be examined to make sure it is of the proper age.

    I know you are arguing that there is a convergence of evidence supporting this oral history. But unless at least some of this evidence is relatively strong its totality does not have a culmulative effect. There are lots of conspiracy theories that share this flaw. The story of Pope Joan is just one. (Refuted by at least one written document signed by a male pope during the time she allegedly was in office.)

    If you could refer me to posts in which this "convergence" of evidence takes place I would appreciate it. Especially considering that the best oral history is done when the person who experienced a particular event sits down with an interviewer. Once we start going though multiple storytellers its reliability shrinks to zero.
      #643
  4. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/04/2007 8:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis
    Mr. Backfist Monkey,
    It is awesome that you take this time to address my comments . I am sure this partially because you feel as if I may be the weakest link . You are right if this is your assumption . I am not all that eloquent nor am I all that literate .

    I know enough to know that I don't know everything. I will man up and take your criticism as perhaps being fair. But I could post many places where he made horrible mistakes and everyone supported him, even when you discovered that his assumptions were absolutely wrong. Now we know that 90% of his assertions were wrong.
    He ( above bolded ) ? I am assuming you are still speaking of Don .If so I don't see were he made assertions or assumptions that were wrong . I know none of my questions were answered through out this thread . I have been keeping abreast of this thread and I honestly can't remember Don making any that assumptions that any sane person would make . Much less any that were contested then corrected with information contrary .Can you please point out the assumptions and assertions that were so wrong and biased ?
    The only claims that haven't come back wrong are the one's we can not verify, one way or the other. So, everyone hangs on his every fake word. I am just sad I sent him over there to the C-Board; he was embarrassing at how he maliciously attacked their leadership.
    "We" ? Who exactly is "we" in the bolded text .

    Just to be clear ... if you make a claim . You back up it up .

    Again you are calling someone a liar (with text above in red) . I am again assuming you are speaking of Don and the questions he has asked . I then ask you quote or link me to the posts that were lies . As for continuing to pretend that Don was anything but nice on the C-boards ... is just silly . People can go look themselves and see how has handled himself . As long as the posts remain unedited or altered .

    Everyone was saying, "What is his problem!" They clearly stated that their history was based on two legends they were looking for more concrete verifiable evidence to support. What's wrong with that, "They kept saying, WE AREN'T SELLING ANY THING."
    Well the CT people are selling something . Martial Arts classes and more than likely MA products on a local level . That is assuming the CT really do spar and use the proper protective gear which they would help provide to their students .

    Odd you seem to be going from "I" to "we" to "they" quite often and you seem very defensive and offended because Don was asking questions and asking for sources .

    Accordingly there is a body of evidence that seems to support their Hypothesis about their claims…they have oral, written, artifacts and complex techniques that can not be ignored. In fact some of their stories about Ethiopian and Kushite history have only been recently uncovered, remember these stories have been around for some time.
    Either it has been known for some time or it has been recently uncovered . So I am confused as to the above quote .
    I think it is a big coincidence that they are practicing in some instances the same techniques that are practiced by certain tribes today...how would they know such particulars? Now that doesn’t prove 6,000, but it is interesting.
    Not true at all . There are only so many ways one can generate power and retain a good base or root . A large number of humans have two arms , two legs , a neck , and a head that are mostly put together the same way . So it would make sense that MA's would over lap in their knowledge and techniques when you try to achieve those two main goals .

    There is Caucasian family that has used an Ethiopian title since the Civil War. In fact the title they use is the highest title that can be bestowed upon a civilian. Well now according to Jones they live in Hattiesburg, but once they lived in Jones County during the Civil War. The Son of this family is a famous person; I will not detail it here. I’ve seen old letters that indicate particulars about Ethiopian Royalty that were not know until 1930’s. Their historical account is apparently based on oral tradition that was actually given. Perhaps the Trojan horse is only a legend that I believe really existed based on verifications of certain things in the written record and the oral history... it does not hurt to look into the claim as fully as possible.
    Why did you put this in here ? I see nothing that can backed up or anything new . Secret sources and old letters from the Civil War detailing more unknown info that was "discovered" again in the 1930's . Where did the Civil War letters go ? Why were they not documented or accepted as documentation before what ever evidence was presented in the 30's that made what ever point you are trying to make valid ?

    If you can't tell you need to fill in some facts and dumb it down for those of us who get hit in the head too often .
    But to claim the man is lying to drive an agenda is completely without evidence of any kind and also very interesting. In fact everything points to the contrary. But I do understand the passion to see this one claim proven wrong. If his claims are deemed to have merit, when the book is published, it will probably be dangerous for him. I know the concern here is not about the questionable history of a martial art (e.g. Buhidaharma, Wing Chung). Believe me, I understand your concern. It is believed the book will argue for a collaboration of evidence that seems to verify their claims of a 6,000 year lineage..
    Who what when ?

    The "man" you are speaking of is Mr. Jones (in green above) ? Are him and his (above in yellow) the same person ? Or is "him" a reference to Don ? Because Don has just been asking questions and has nothing to lose nor a pony in this race .

    Actually yes , the issue is "the questionable history of a martial art" Combat Tai's claim to be 6,000 years old . So I do not believe you understand the concerns I myself hold and I doubt you understand the mindset of others based on your interaction with them on this thread .

    I guess a book plug is fitting at this point in the thread . Any word on when this evidence and when it will be revealed ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
      #644
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/05/2007 2:02am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Simply put Mantis put up or shut up.

    Where are the links to these horrible mistakes of Don?
    Can you show me where I have backed up Don on any of his assertions?
    Where is the information (proof of this 6,000 year old history) you constantly state you will provide?
      #645
  6. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    3/05/2007 10:13am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mantis, to switch subjects just a little bit, please explain what you meant in the following quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis
    ...often when people are hit in certain areas it will paralyze them in a general while perhaps not a literal since.
    Incidentally, the Southern Nevada Gang Task Force is actually the Southern Nevada Community Gang Task Force (judging by your perception of liars in previous posts, that mistake would make you a liar, but I'm willing to bet it was just a typo), which can be found here: http://www.bestcoalition.com/gps2.html
    It looks like the civilian side of a gang intervention program - the website doesn't appear to get a lot of hits, since the counter reads 465 right now - which is a wonderful idea and I applaud everyone involved in the effort.
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
      #646
  7. Mantis is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/05/2007 10:49am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    If the board is shut down, then please reproduce the claim that is relevant to Mr William's work here. If not please supply a link to the relevant section in which the claim is made..

    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    I know you are arguing that there is a convergence of evidence supporting this oral history. But unless at least some of this evidence is relatively strong its totality does not have a culmulative effect. There are lots of conspiracy theories that share this flaw. The story of Pope Joan is just one. (Refuted by at least one written document signed by a male pope during the time she allegedly was in office.)..
    I believe the evidence is strong, but I am not in a position to interpret the data. I have become a friend of Comba-Tai and I can only say that by summers end Jones has promises to have at least one book in a series for everyone's perusal. Yes, there are many questions that have to be answered.
      #647
  8. Mantis is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/05/2007 10:53am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceLost
    Mantis, to switch subjects just a little bit, please explain what you meant in the following quote:


    Incidentally, the Southern Nevada Gang Task Force is actually the Southern Nevada Community Gang Task Force (judging by your perception of liars in previous posts, that mistake would make you a liar, but I'm willing to bet it was just a typo), which can be found here: http://www.bestcoalition.com/gps2.html
    It looks like the civilian side of a gang intervention program - the website doesn't appear to get a lot of hits, since the counter reads 465 right now - which is a wonderful idea and I applaud everyone involved in the effort.

    Thanks ... it was a typo and community is important in this regard. Thank you.
      #648
  9. Mantis is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/05/2007 10:54am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    Simply put Mantis put up or shut up.

    Where are the links to these horrible mistakes of Don?
    Can you show me where I have backed up Don on any of his assertions?
    Where is the information (proof of this 6,000 year old history) you constantly state you will provide?

    I already posted the links ... but what do you care?
      #649
  10. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    3/05/2007 10:56am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Please answer the question in my last post (by "question," I mean the request for an explanation).
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
      #650

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