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  1. Mantis is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 4:33pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Big Don,

    Could you truthfully tell us why the cultish members of Comba-Tai banned you from the Comba-Tai Board?


    JUST SO WE ARE CLEAR!

    THE MANTIS
      #511
  2. Mantis is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 4:46pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceLost
    Fixed that for you. Bro, you're not coming across real well in the communication department. And, before you start accusing me of chanting Don Gwinn's name as some part of a cultish holy rite, I wouldn't know him if I ran over him on the street. I've agreed with some of his views and disagreed with others - but that's not the point.

    You write a paragraph of accusations and then demand Gwinn answer the question...but you forget to actually include a question. You make some really bizarre leaps of what may pass for logic in your world, such as this statement:


    Umm, no, he wasn't implying anything. He was flat out saying that it sounded cultish. What's the 'hidden implication' in "Hmm, that sounds a little cultish?" Let me remind you what he said here:


    I'm not going to bother to point out the logical fallacies and mistakes in your post, but here is a shining example of misdirection:

    Using your own stated understanding of instruction and education, I would expect you to elucidate us on this point, not yammer about how Don Gwinn doesn't see the point you believe to be so important. Here's a hint - MAKE the point and then explain WHY it is relevant to the issue at hand (which is Combat-Tai, not Don Gwinn). Welcome to the investigative process...

    Oh, and let me reiterate something I just said...this thread is about Combat-Tai. Gwinn is doing what any number of posters on Bullshido would do - asking questions and forming opinions based on the answers he gets (or lack thereof). If you want to start a thread about how Gwinny-Pooh doesn't understand Freire's critical pedagogy, do it, but stop whining. It makes you look like a dick.

    Oncelost,

    I know big Don is your friend, sorry if I’ve hurt you. All I am saying is, I think we don’t do a service to dialogue between philosophies and martial arts to characterize sincere people by calling them names. That inspires an even more dug-in position. You guys sometimes come across as a bit arrogant in this regard, and characterizing people as "dicks," is not likely to help your case.

    You shouldn’t ask questions on any thread if you don’t want to be asked why! You also shouldn’t make suggestive statements if you are afraid to defend them! You don’t need to reiterate anything, just answer my questions about Comba-Tai and the Comba-Tai rater. Thanks and have an awesome day.



    THE MANTIS
    Last edited by Mantis; 2/20/2007 4:47pm at . Reason: add word
      #512
  3. Don Gwinn is offline
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    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 4:54pm

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm late, leaving work, and I've got to get out of here, but I wanted to post one very important point before I leave. Maybe I can pop back in tonight. Here it is:

    STOP IT! Stop It Don!
    No. No, I don't think I will.
    *********************************************
      #513
  4. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 5:41pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis
    I know big Don is your friend, sorry if I’ve hurt you.
    Maybe you missed this part - I know Don as much as well as I know you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis
    All I am saying is, I think we don’t do a service to dialogue between philosophies and martial arts to characterize sincere people by calling them names. That inspires an even more dug-in position. You guys sometimes come across as a bit arrogant in this regard, and characterizing people as "dicks," is not likely to help your case.
    Welcome to Bullshido - we don't mince words or tiptoe around trying to find the polite way to describe something. If we believe people are acting stupid, cultish, or like dicks, we call them on it. You've been whining about the way Gwinn asks questions and then spouting off without clarifying anything (like your, "You really don't see the point?" question). If YOU have answers about this stuff, provide them or shut up. If you want to start a thread about Don Gwinn, do it. All we're after is the information we deem necessary to form an opinion about something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis
    You shouldn’t ask questions on any thread if you don’t want to be asked why!
    And if the answer to, "Why?" is, "Because I'm curious," will you still answer?
    Because misrepresenting the martial arts lowers the standard and respect for everyone who trains - isn't that enough of a reason to start asking questions when you see something you beleive is suspicious? Sometimes the pursuit of objective truth or knowledge is its own reason...only people with something to hide are afraid of questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis
    You also shouldn’t make suggestive statements if you are afraid to defend them! You don’t need to reiterate anything, just answer my questions about Comba-Tai and the Comba-Tai rater.
    To throw your own words back at you - why? You haven't shown much interest in actually answering questions about Combat-tai! Like I said, if you have questions about Gwinn, start a thread about him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis
    Thanks and have an awesome day.
    Wish I could, bro, but I spent the day at home with my son because we're both sick.
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
      #514
  5. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 7:46pm


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I really don't like your flawed logic and double standards.

    You rant continuously about how Don has not answered questions in your posts when you yourself have failed to answer the question in my last post.

    Then you bitch a lot about how you think that Don is being disrespectful as he is, in your eyes, unqualified to evaluate Comba-Tai. You follow it with the quoted post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis
    I am thinking about the Cold War drama Crimson Tide, we find a naval officer played by Denzel Washington giving a “big speech” to a young radioman on whose skill and attention hangs the fate of the world.

    The poor fellow has to get the submarine’s radio up and running to learn if the vessel should launch its missiles. If he fails, the captain will be forced to launch the sub’s nuclear arms blindly, cause the enemy to retaliate, and eventually destroy the world---even through it may not be necessary. (“Sorry. My mistake!”)

    In the real world the poor fellow probably would collapse from the pressure. In fact, the stress would be so debilitating that a smart leader would be doing everything in his or her power to provide support. But screenwriters are human too. They make the fundamental attribution error by creating a radioman who doesn’t need support. He needs to be inspired. Apparently, he hasn’t repaired the radio yet because he has something he’d rather do than save the world from total destruction.

    Stay with me…

    Denzel delivers a really hot speech. After the tear-jerking performance the radioman turns to his coworkers and tells him to stop messing around so that they can prevent a nuclear holocaust instead of playing video games or whatever it is they’re doing.

    Denzel gives the speech, the radioman is appropriately inspired, and yes, the audience breaks into applause. Charisma makes for good drama; however, it has precious little to do with the truth. Rest assured that you don’t have to be charismatic to deliver truth. Truth is charismatic all by itself.


    THE MANTIS
    Kindly provide the answers to the following:
    What qualifies you to analyse and evaluate Film?
    What qualifies you to analyse and evaluate the screenwriting process?
    What qualifies you to analyse and evaluate naval personnel training?
    What qualifies you to analyse and evaluate nuclear deterrence strategies?

    You out and out demand Don's qualifications (which he openly provides) and then you belittle them. Please provide proof of your own or is your hypocrisy so severe that you cannot hold yourself to the same standard you do others?
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
      #515
  6. Mantis is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 12:00pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceLost
    Welcome to Bullshido - we don't mince words or tiptoe around trying to find the polite way to describe something. If we believe people are acting stupid, cultish, or like dicks, we call them on it.
    OnceLost






    If I got into a discussion with you based on your adolescent misrepresentations of the martial arts, it would make us both look like dicks. When you learn how to engage in a civil conversation, hit me back! Until then keep posting what you do best. Is that being a D...
    Last edited by Mantis; 2/22/2007 12:01pm at . Reason: add word
      #516
  7. Mantis is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 12:05pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [QUOTE=Mantis]I really don't like your flawed logic and double standards.


    [QUOTE]

    Kindly provide the answers to the following:
    What qualifies you to analyse and evaluate Film?



    I saw the film. Don has never seen Comba-Tai and Don has never seen a Comba-Tai member.




    What qualifies you to analyse and evaluate the screenwriting process?



    I am qualified to critique the screenwriting process because I SAW THE FILM! Don has never seen Comba-Tai and Don has never seen a Comba-Tai member. Don has never asked to read their curriculum.




    What qualifies you to analyse and evaluate naval personnel training?



    I can honestly critique naval personnel training because I’ve had some experience with naval training. But I’ve at least seen it once. Can Don say that about Comba-Tai. No he cannot!


    What qualifies you to analyse and evaluate nuclear deterrence strategies?



    I can critique nuclear deterrence strategies based on the screen play. I saw the movie, remember! I’ve also read the script; you can get it on line.



    Has don read the Comba-Tai curriculum? No!

    Has Don witnessed a Comba-Tai class? No he has not.



    Those who are interested in answers about a subject, ask questions about the subject. You don’t have to be qualified to ask intelligent questions.



    1. What is your strategic plan?

    2. What is your customer service strategy?

    3. What is your customer flow?

    4. What is your vision?

    5. Do you have a mission statement?

    6. What are your safety practices?

    7. What factors make your system affective?

    8. Can I see your testimonials?

    9. Do you have references I can contact?

    10. Do you possess a business plan?

    11. Why aren’t their any African Techniques on your website?

    12. You talk of a Christian Heritage, do you disallow other religions?

    13. How do you select black belts/ Instructors?

    14. Why do you believe discipline is so important?

    15. Why do you follow a rank structure?

    16. Do your instructors have rules of conduct?

    17. How do you discipline instructors?

    18. What are your class rules?

    19. What are your instructor’s credentials?

    20. Are your instructors CPR certified?

    21. Are their any scholars that agree with your historical claims?

    22. Do you have references concerning your historical claims?

    23. In order to progress are customers required to learn your history?

    24. Do you consider your history Afrocentric? Why?



    Look at all of Don's posts. When you look at his post he appears to be a Troll (internet) to even the casual observer. Well boys and girls, let’s define our terms.



    Troll In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, absurd, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.



    Why did Don troll around the Comba-Tai Board? He wanted to post messages that were inflammatory,





    insulting,

    dongwinn
    Guest

    Re: Questions about Comba-Tai and MMA Competition
    « Reply #44 on Jan 6, 2007, 4:01pm »






    Also, checking the fighters you've trained is taking some time precisely because it's not so easy to check on the internet. I have not found contact information for Mike Sciortino or John Dixson. If you'd be willing to pass that along, the process could go faster. If not, I understand.



    dongwinn
    Guest

    Re: Questions about Comba-Tai and MMA Competition
    « Reply #46 on Jan 6, 2007, 11:46pm »



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Adam Guerra has spoken up. He says he doesn't know much about Comba-Tai except that you've been studying it a long time, but he speaks very highly of your skills.






    1. Is Comba-Tai's history legitimate?
    Well, I can't seem to get a straight answer on this, and the answers I've gotten suggest that no, it is not.



    2. Is Comba-Tai an effective fighting method?
    It looks like Comba-Tai includes some effective fighters and trainers, if Robert Parham is representative. People with verifiable records in MMA vouch for his ability and, more importantly, say that he can train fighters. Almost every art has at least one stud who can fight, often despite the art (see the Turkish guy who wins full-contact Muay Thai matches with TKD jump-spin-heel kicks.) The better test is whether the art's instructors can produce fighters.



    dongwinn
    Guest

    Re: Questions about Comba-Tai and MMA Competition
    « Reply #53 on Jan 7, 2007, 8:28pm »








    All I can tell you about your fight record and all the rest is that in my mind, that's separate from the Comba-Tai afro-centric business.







    incorrect,

    dongwinn
    Guest

    Re: Questions about Comba-Tai and MMA Competition
    « Reply #96 on Feb 9, 2007, 8:47pm »



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------








    I don't think it would be, but luckily enough, I didn't imply that. I didn't imply anything. I stated quite forthrightly that I think Dr. Jones is exaggerating things with his stories of people laughing at him for discussing multiple intelligences. They certainly could be true, but I'm not going to abandon my judgment because someone says that exercising my best judgment is disrespectful. If it's disrespectful to ask questions or make statements that you or Dr. Jones find "challenging," then I'll have to live with being disrespectful.






    Did you just challenge me to prove that Gardner's Theory of Multiple Intelligences is not a "valid platform" for teaching and education? Why would I want to attempt that? Did I allege that Gardner's theory is invalid?
    I believe I disagreeertion was that Dr. Jones' claim to have come up with the Theory of Multiple Intelligences independently before it became widespread in educational circles (remember, people were laughing at him for mentioning it!) is another extraordinary claim.





    Don did not claim to be anything in the beginning. It appeared as thought he was passing himself of as an expert.

    dongwinn
    Guest

    Re: Questions about Comba-Tai and MMA Competition
    « Reply #50 on Jan 7, 2007, 2:38pm






    Much like "Michael Bell," I'm just some white guy with a few months of training. I study Gracie Barra Jiu-Jitsu under Marcos Barros, who got his black belt from Carlos Gracie, Jr. I've been there about four months not counting time off for a neck injury; a rank beginner.
    In other words, I am exactly what I have claimed to be from the beginning.

    inaccurate,

    dongwinn
    Guest

    Re: Questions about Comba-Tai and MMA Competition
    « Reply #42 on Jan 6, 2007, 10:57am »






    Dr. Jones is of course free to answer or not answer questions as he sees fit, but you must understand there's a problem with throwing out references to amazing (and well-documented!) demonstrations of fighting ability, but then refusing to provide that documentation.



    She never became a true believer! Don lied!

    dongwinn
    Guest

    Re: Questions about Comba-Tai and MMA Competition
    « Reply #50 on Jan 7, 2007, 2:38pm »







    I'm curious about Karen Oyama Sensei, registered here as "Karen." I was intrigued by how quickly she changed from skeptic to true believer two years ago in the Welcome thread, and I wonder if she's stayed in contact with anyone in the Comba-Tai family.





    dongwinn
    Guest

    Re: Questions about Comba-Tai and MMA Competition
    « Reply #53 on Jan 7, 2007, 8:28pm »







    Somebody posted a lot of crazy stuff on E-Budo. It was posted from Dr. Jones' IP address but not in Dr. Jones' name, and it was written in Dr. Jones' style and filled with details about Dr. Jones' life, when it was supposed to be from a guy who had three months in the style.





    dongwinn
    Guest

    Re: Questions about Comba-Tai and MMA Competition
    « Reply #64 on Jan 19, 2007, 11:52pm »








    I have found no evidence of any links, no. You haven't proposed any links, either. You have simply stated that there was boxing and grappling in ancient Egypt, there is boxing and grappling in your system now (or, for the sake of argument, there was wrestling and boxing in the system taught to Soke Mylemu Jones' grandfather) and so it should be obvious that the system he learned is more or less the same as--and is directly descended from--an ancient Egyptian/Nubian system.

    That just doesn't follow.

    dongwinn
    Guest

    Re: Questions about Comba-Tai and MMA Competition
    « Reply #103 on Feb 13, 2007, 7:58pm






    Your students, sir, have told me several times on this very board that asking questions about Comba-Tai is disrespectful.
    I have not made a challenge and will not.



    absurd





    dongwinn
    Guest

    Re: Questions about Comba-Tai and MMA Competition
    « Reply #61 on Jan 15, 2007, 5:59pm »






    The first assertion, to address your point about context, is only true if the context is taken to be so broad as to allow all human endeavor of any kind to be traced back to Africa simply because that is where the earliest known hominids developed. That point of view would remake igloo shelters and ice fishing into 6,000 year-old-traditions handed down from Egyptian and Kunutse ancestors.

    dongwinn
    Guest

    Re: Questions about Comba-Tai and MMA Competition
    « Reply #36 on Jan 5, 2007, 10:58pm »



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------







    Ronin, I'm being as respectful as I know how to be,



    Yes, I recall being told that as long as I wanted to have a civil and respectful conversation I was welcome.

    What an odd question. I am an American. I study a fighting art taught by another American who was born in Brazil, not Japan. I don't have a sensei.
    More importantly, is a thing not worth doing unless it brings honor to your sensei? My questioning brings information to me, and that's all I ask of it. Picking my kids up from the babysitter and cooking dinner today didn't bring honor to my teacher, either, but it still seemed like a good idea at the time.

    dongwinn
    Guest

    Re: Questions about Comba-Tai and MMA Competition
    « Reply #59 on Jan 14, 2007, 2:05pm »





    Mr. Barber makes a great point. Please provide the name, phone number and address of every student who has learned Comba-Tai for free in, say, the past five years.

    and off-topic



    dongwinn
    Guest

    Re: Questions about Comba-Tai and MMA Competition
    « Reply #26 on Jan 5, 2007, 11:12am »



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Good news: It turns out that at least one thread in which Comba-Tai was discussed on E-Budo has survived. All one had to do was ask:

    http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25699

    Many interesting things are said in this thread, but I'm only on page four.






    dongwinn
    Guest

    Re: Questions about Comba-Tai and MMA Competition
    « Reply #66 on Jan 20, 2007, 10:56am »



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Since I'm *not* a historian, I kind of took that part in stride. I'm also not a plumber, an electrician or a drywaller . . . . I handle all those things pretty much the same way. I read a lot of books and do the best I can.














    with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.
      #517
  8. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 12:25pm


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis

    I saw the film. Don has never seen Comba-Tai and Don has never seen a Comba-Tai member.



    I am qualified to critique the screenwriting process because I SAW THE FILM! Don has never seen Comba-Tai and Don has never seen a Comba-Tai member. Don has never asked to read their curriculum.
    So, is what you are saying is that you have no qualifications at all to critique this film, or indeed the screenwriting process (which, as a hint, has nothing to do with the finished film)? Am I correct? Please state clearly whether you have any recognised and provable qualifications to perform the analysis and evaluation that you did.





    I can honestly critique naval personnel training because I’ve had some experience with naval training. But I’ve at least seen it once. Can Don say that about Comba-Tai. No he cannot!
    Please detail this experience you have had with naval training. Did you serve in the navy? Did you serve and train as a nuclear submarine communication specialist?


    I can critique nuclear deterrence strategies based on the screen play. I saw the movie, remember! I’ve also read the script; you can get it on line.
    Are you saying that your entire basis for your examination of nuclear deterrence strategies comes from watching a Hollywood movie? Do you believe this a sufficient qualification? Have you ever heard of the concept of movies often being intentionally wrong and the 'suspension of disbelief'?
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
      #518
  9. Mantis is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 12:26pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Unlike Don, I just want to be fair. (Hey that could be a song.)

    What is all this about? I am suggesting that Don has misrepresented Comba-Tai in the worse possible way because of an agenda. So my posts are about the misinformation he gave on Comba-Tai. If anyone has questions about Comba-Tai, I can tell you how to get them.

    So what is the problem with Don’s questions about Comba-Tai?

    In order to see an object clearly, begin with the big picture (the general idea) and then move in closer to see the specifics. Starting with the big picture alerts the readers to “Look at this now.” Moving in to see the details makes more sense once you know that you are examining. It would logically follow that if you didn’t follow this criterion, you might have another agenda. Of course you would!

    It wouldn’t be fair to say Don definitely had another agenda unless he alluded to having an agenda. Good news, we have his apparent emotional agenda.


    dongwinn
    Guest
    Re: Questions about Comba-Tai and MMA Competition
    « Reply #106 on Feb 14, 2007, 10:14am »




    If you're wondering "what's the big deal?" you're probably not alone. Here's the big deal in a different context:

    I spend a lot of time and energy volunteering in the fight for the right to keep and bear arms. In layman's terms, I work against gun control laws. I don't know what anyone here thinks of that issue, and I don't really need to unless someone really wants to discuss it. I want to discuss another man who opposes gun control.

    His name is Dr. John Lott, a researcher who made an extensive study of the impact of concealed carry laws on violent crime. Lott's study showed that the impact ranges from zero to positive; states that passed CCW either maintained the same crime rates or decreased violent crime. The decreases, over all, happened at a faster rate than the overall national decrease that was happening at the time (this was the early to mid 1990's.)

    So far, so good, and his research stood up to a lot of professional scrutiny. However, it was controversial, as you can imagine, and Lott eventually went from being a full-time econometrist without much stake in the gun debate to traveling and lecturing about his research and the book that followed, "More Guns, Less Crime." More controversy and more attacks on Lott followed.

    On many web forums, among Lott's defenders was a young woman named "Mary Rosh." Mary Rosh said she had no dog in the gun control fight, but was posting because Lott was the best teacher she'd ever had, and he was a wonderful economist. She simply loved her some Dr. Lott, in a far-off, platonic academic hero sort of way.

    So when it turned out that Mary Rosh was really John Lott's hand puppet and never actually existed, you can imagine that people like me were not very happy with Lott. Now, maybe Mary Rosh doesn't invalidate Lott's research, but I think we all know what she does to his credibility. And if Michael Bell and Karen Oyama are Dr. Jones' Mary Roshes, they'll do the same thing to his credibility.

    I know most of you think I post things like that out of an irrational, childish hatred for Dr. Jones and Comba-Tai. There isn't much I can do about that except let my actions speak for themselves. If you can convince yourself that I harbor an irrational, childish hatred for Dr. John Lott, the man who provided a lot of impetus for a movement I deeply cherish, then maybe you can continue to believe that I'm just picking on Dr. Jones because I hate him for some reason. If not, cognitive dissonance is a good reason to rethink your premise.


    Get over this Don. This sounds crazy! It is unlikely that your posts apply to Comba-Tai. But you wouldn’t know that, you are a Novice trying to evaluate expert knowledge based on your own agenda. This always presents many problems.
      #519
  10. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2007 12:48pm


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis
    Unlike Don, I just want to be fair.
    Prove it, answer all my questions.
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
      #520

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