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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 5:52pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis
    What did I apologize for? I bet you don't know!
    Actually, I do.

    Why don't you spin it differently now.
      #1011
  2. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 5:57pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis
    Oh and by the way, I gave you more than 10 peer reviewed articles, but you over looked all the information I shared, unless of course you think it supports your assertions.
    How the hell would we know unless we read them ?

    And another slight flaw . I can't seem to remember any links to peer reviewed articles in your posts .
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    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
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      #1012
  3. DAYoung is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 6:17pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Excuse my tardiness and sketchiness.

    I've found only one peer-reviewed article on Nubian wrestling, by Carroll in the Journal of Sport History.

    This is then cited by a couple of other, non-MA-related articles (e.g. on archaeology).

    Is this what others have found?
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      #1013
  4. Grashnak is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 7:51pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    Excuse my tardiness and sketchiness.

    I've found only one peer-reviewed article on Nubian wrestling, by Carroll in the Journal of Sport History.

    This is then cited by a couple of other, non-MA-related articles (e.g. on archaeology).

    Is this what others have found?
    Yes, that is it. I posted a link a little earlier and actually gave Mantis credit for having finally suggest a paper that said something meaningful (he was the one who brought the Carroll article up) even if it does nothing to prove his claims about Comba-Tai. At least it was a legitimate article.

    Mantis has several problems, among them an inability to communicate coherently in the English language, but his primary problem is that he cannot differentiate between evidence that suggests that something might have a connection to something else, and evidence that proves a lineage.

    Mantis quotes a lot of things that don't say what he thinks they do. A little earlier he pointed us at a wiki entry about Nuba wrestling but was completely silent when I quoted the part of the article that said that you couldn't draw any concrete conclusions from the Egyptian tomb drawings because, duh, pictures of stick figures wrestling pretty much look like every wrestling style in existence.

    He's also apparently suffering from a significant racial persecution complex. He seems to believe that the only reason anyone would question Comba-Tai's lineage is because they are racist and unwilling to believe that africans could have an ancient heritage. Of course, if he bothered to spend 5 minutes searching the site, he would find people giving **** to blacks, whites, indians, chinese, russians, rednecks, ninjas, and every other human sub-category on the planet. The one common denominator to these piss takings? Bullshit claims about martial arts. We are equal opportunity sceptics.

    Hey Mantis, here is a pretty simple question that I don't think has been asked before. Since you are so big on the "oral tradition" that meticulously recorded the 6,000 year history of Comba-Tai's lineage, perhaps you could answer the following simple questions:

    • What was the name of the original founder of Comba-Tai? (And I don't mean Jones, who claims to have revived it - if you have such a detailed oral tradition, surely the tradition must include such an important piece of information as the identity or the originator. )
    • Again, given your detailed oral tradition, please provide the names of the ten masters or grand poohbahs or whatever who preceeded Jones' grandfather. That shouldn't be too hard. I'm pretty sure that any asian martial art could rattle off the last ten masters of their orders.
    See, those are simple, direct questions that any martial art with a long and proud lineage could answer. Especially one with such a detailed history that it can trace itself back 6,000 years.
    Jesus loves you. I think you're an asshole.
      #1014
  5. Mantis is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 8:06pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh Alright ... all you cultish like followers have a new phrase "Peer Review Article"! OH Great!

    Lets keep saying Peer Review Article: "This is what we will use to prove that (Comba-Tai) Gezerit al Malik is not 6,000 years old. And in so doing we can finally beat The Mantis who has been kicking our asses for over 100 pages." No my enemies, you are delivered into my hands.

    Just because you cannot find a peer review article does not mean one does not exist.

    If it is not peer reviewed does not mean it didn't happen e.g.

    • I challenge you to provide a peer review article on Wing Chung before Yip Man revaled it to the Public.

    • I challenge you to provide a peer review article on Karate-Do before U.S. service men broght it to the U.S.

    • Provide a peer review article on the Mantis System (I doubt you can find one today, yet it exists).


    • Etc.

    I believe in the peer review process, however Comba-Tai is an obscure martial art that is currently being looked over by its developers and only recently revealed to the public in the last 5 years. Peer Review is a process that journals use to ensure the articles they publish represent the best scholarship currently available. Comba-Tai should be given a chance whenever they come out with their book or article on the 6,000 year old royal warrior tradition. But in any case let me offer a word of caution for Peer review:

    The process is also given to biases as well and especially as it relates to current and past African History. "NO NOT RACIAL" http://www.amazon.com/Black-Spark-Wh.../dp/0761521631 , http://dickinsg.intrasun.tcnj.edu/fi.../bio.html#book
    The African History was largley discarded http://search.eb.com/blackhistory/

    You man not be willing to admit that here, but it is true. Let me ask these questions. I am sure you have great answers, I am certainly willing to hear them:

    • Why did Nubian history lie in general obscurity despite the consistent interest in it shown by generations of African American scholars?

    • Why in the eyes of some scholars is it deemed that anything Nubian is a pale reflection of things Egyptian.

    • Why did UNESCO sponsor a Nubian Rescue Campaign and why are many artifacts of Nubia under water.

    There are a few articles however about Nubian culture that are peer review that might suggest 6,000 years, i.e. Racial History and Bio-Cultural Adaptation of Nubian Archaeological Populations Dennis P. van Gerven, David S. Carlson, George J. Armelagos The Journal of African History, Vol. 14, No. 4 (1973), pp. 555-564

    We know that in 4,000 B.C. drawings in Nubia suggest boxing a systematic sport.

    We also know that the Medjay may have come from the horn of Africa and brought this style of combat in 4,000 B.C.

    I know you will over look everything I've said ... Fine, but I will not stop believing in the 6,000 year old tradition until someone can prove I'm wrong. So far no one has. Have I offered evidence for me being right? Yes I certainly have. But like most things that offend you, you will discard them and use phrases like peer review to suggest it didn't happen. But it probably did and I believe it and I have a right to say why I believe in the 6,000 year old tradition.
      #1015
  6. Mantis is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 8:31pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Grashnak
    Hey Mantis, here is a pretty simple question that I don't think has been asked before. Since you are so big on the "oral tradition" that meticulously recorded the 6,000 year history of Comba-Tai's lineage, perhaps you could answer the following simple questions:


    • What was the name of the original founder of Comba-Tai? (And I don't mean Jones, who claims to have revived it - if you have such a detailed oral tradition, surely the tradition must include such an important piece of information as the identity or the originator. )
    • Again, given your detailed oral tradition, please provide the names of the ten masters or grand poohbahs or whatever who preceeded Jones' grandfather. That shouldn't be too hard. I'm pretty sure that any asian martial art could rattle off the last ten masters of their orders.

    See, those are simple, direct questions that any martial art with a long and proud lineage could answer. Especially one with such a detailed history that it can trace itself back 6,000 years.

    .

    I have already answered this and I will not answer it unless you ask it with more respect.
      #1016
  7. twKoxinga is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 8:38pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis
    Oh Alright ... all you cultish like followers have a new phrase "Peer Review Article"! OH Great!

    Lets keep saying Peer Review Article: "This is what we will use to prove that (Comba-Tai) Gezerit al Malik is not 6,000 years old. And in so doing we can finally beat The Mantis who has been kicking our asses for over 100 pages." No my enemies, you are delivered into my hands.

    Just because you cannot find a peer review article does not mean one does not exist.

    If it is not peer reviewed does not mean it didn't happen e.g.

    • I challenge you to provide a peer review article on Wing Chung before Yip Man revaled it to the Public.

    • I challenge you to provide a peer review article on Karate-Do before U.S. service men broght it to the U.S.

    • Provide a peer review article on the Mantis System (I doubt you can find one today, yet it exists).


    • Etc.

    I believe in the peer review process, however Comba-Tai is an obscure martial art that is currently being looked over by its developers and only recently revealed to the public in the last 5 years. Peer Review is a process that journals use to ensure the articles they publish represent the best scholarship currently available. Comba-Tai should be given a chance whenever they come out with their book or article on the 6,000 year old royal warrior tradition. But in any case let me offer a word of caution for Peer review:

    The process is also given to biases as well and especially as it relates to current and past African History. "NO NOT RACIAL" http://www.amazon.com/Black-Spark-Wh.../dp/0761521631 , http://dickinsg.intrasun.tcnj.edu/fi.../bio.html#book
    The African History was largley discarded http://search.eb.com/blackhistory/

    You man not be willing to admit that here, but it is true. Let me ask these questions. I am sure you have great answers, I am certainly willing to hear them:

    • Why did Nubian history lie in general obscurity despite the consistent interest in it shown by generations of African American scholars?

    • Why in the eyes of some scholars is it deemed that anything Nubian is a pale reflection of things Egyptian.

    • Why did UNESCO sponsor a Nubian Rescue Campaign and why are many artifacts of Nubia under water.

    There are a few articles however about Nubian culture that are peer review that might suggest 6,000 years, i.e. Racial History and Bio-Cultural Adaptation of Nubian Archaeological Populations Dennis P. van Gerven, David S. Carlson, George J. Armelagos The Journal of African History, Vol. 14, No. 4 (1973), pp. 555-564

    We know that in 4,000 B.C. drawings in Nubia suggest boxing a systematic sport.

    We also know that the Medjay may have come from the horn of Africa and brought this style of combat in 4,000 B.C.

    I know you will over look everything I've said ... Fine, but I will not stop believing in the 6,000 year old tradition until someone can prove I'm wrong. So far no one has. Have I offered evidence for me being right? Yes I certainly have. But like most things that offend you, you will discard them and use phrases like peer review to suggest it didn't happen. But it probably did and I believe it and I have a right to say why I believe in the 6,000 year old tradition.
    So, wheres the asskicking? it seems to be imaginary, oh, and where are the peer reviewed articles? OH YEAH! YOU CAN'T FIND THEM! what a coincidence, eh?

    Heres one with a whole crapload of information on both western and eastern martial arts and military history, backed up with sources, although I'm not sure whether its peer reviewed it does use many book sources and historical documents to back up its info. http://ejmas.com/kronos/NewHist1900-1939.htm

    Guess what, those articles are about how African culture had an impact on European culture, and how African history is more difficult to research, it STILL does not prove your claims of the art being 6000 years old.

    Nubian history lies in obscurity probably because 1. its hard to find old stuff, 2. it needs lots of funding which some governments aren't willing to give. Hell, people are interested in other topics in history that information in which information is sparse, however they admit their findings are possible theories, whereas you espouse your theory as truth.

    UNESCO funds programs because they seek to preserve all cultural heritages, doesn't prove anything, they fund programs in other nations as well, even those whose histories are relatively well analyzed.

    The thing is, we aren't trying to find out whether Nubian culture goes back 6000 years, thats a tangent, we're talking about whether Comba-Tai is a legit 6000 year old art, bringing up the point that Nubian culture has nothing to do with whether Comba-Tai existed then. Having a systematic martial art then doesn't mean it carries on to the future. Last time I checked, Greco-Roman wrestling didn't, it was "recreated" in France later on in history, based on conjecture/trying techniques (correct me if I'm wrong here).

    You have the right to believe whatever you want, just as we have the right to disprove your arguments, and remain skeptical about your claims of having a 6000 year old art.
      #1017
  8. twKoxinga is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 8:41pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    oh, and until you prove your claims, stop calling people racists, pedophiles, etc, and stop claiming that you're owning us, I don't think you're anyone who should be talking about respect.
    What? So in order for you to answer legitimate points, we have to "ask nicely?"
    Oh and guess what, you have said that you've answered many points, gave links, etc, and you haven't either.
      #1018
  9. Mantis is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 9:06pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by twKoxinga
    The thing is, we aren't trying to find out whether Nubian culture goes back 6000 years, thats a tangent, we're talking about whether Comba-Tai is a legit 6000 year old art, bringing up the point that Nubian culture has nothing to do with whether Comba-Tai existed then. Having a systematic martial art then doesn't mean it carries on to the future. Last time I checked, Greco-Roman wrestling didn't, it was "recreated" in France later on in history, based on conjecture/trying techniques (correct me if I'm wrong here).

    You have the right to believe whatever you want, just as we have the right to disprove your arguments, and remain skeptical about your claims of having a 6000 year old art.

    You have not disproved anything. All you guys do is say I am wrong and you are right. Ok, say what you want, but I disagree.

    And yes, Gezerit al Malik is a part of Comba-Tai and is directly related to Nubian Wrestling, which the Nuba practice today. Again many of the African traditions of warfare are related to the Kushite Empire or the Medjay Kushites who have existed for at least 6,000 years. Comba-Tai traces it's lineage to them through the Island of Meroe with the establishment of the Order of Saint Anthony.
      #1019
  10. DAYoung is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 9:07pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis
    • I challenge you to provide a peer review article on Karate-Do before U.S. service men broght it to the U.S.
    Off the top of my head: Kevin S.Y. Tan, ‘Constructing a Martial Tradition: Rethinking a Popular History of Karate-Dou’, Journal of Sport & Social Issues 28 2 (2004): 169-192.

    Tan stresses the difficulty of establishing any claims in oral histories, but gives a very good account of the antecedents and historical circumstances of Karate-Do.
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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      #1020

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