Fang Shen Do IV : "the way of email Q&A"

**TKD Black Belt** · Posted On: 5/09/2007 8:25pm

Well once again I get to be the one to tell the stories. Before I go on though I would ask a favour of your jackals out there, please do not rip on Stephane's posts outside of legitimate critique based commentary. I will be reporting posts that I feel get too aggressive so consider yourself warned.

Here we go:

[ed: my emails will be in Blue whilst young Stephane's will be in Red]

So what's up buttercup? You wanted to talk to me?

Jack (aka: TKD Black Belt)

Hey how are you? So Jack huh? Funny guy haha well you don't seem to want to be known I guess. I never liked the idea of not identifying myself with anything that I say or write . Add me on msn and that could be easier to interact and faster. Let me know when?

His next email was in reply to my post a few pages back.

Hello TKD,

How are you doing today? I don't know where you get all this information on some of your stories about women beeing harrassed and washroom beatings of drunken men. I have fought on many occasions to defend myself or loved ones but I never go out with the intention of fighting that is for sure. I'm a very easy person to get along with and if you know people from bullshido on say otherwise then ok but.... Like anyone else I will not let myself be stepped on and will defend myself at a drop of a hat if need be.

The matches that the 2 sifus attended was with 4 ounce mixed martial arts gloves and is not considered a boxing match. Quite a few of the guys in that event are on the TKO circuit and the referree at the event is one that I have seen in the UFC ring on many occasions. The point concerning competition is something that will change in the very near future. We just have never been interested in that and the mentality of our training is for street self defense where no rules are concerned. We have people already who we are training to compete in various competitions.

Why you beat a brown sash? Hmmm I could tell you the same thing on why one of my yellow sashes beat a black belt in karate and tae kwondo in less than 30 seconds or a black belt in ju jitsu got rolled around like a rag doll when blue sash did some grappling only . I hope you know this but not everyone is a fighter and even if they do the best martial art on earth with the best teacher on earth some people just will never be fighters. If I would know the brown belt you went with then I could tell you why he did so poorly. Again some people will be good in all martial arts and the majority will not and that is fine but as long as we don't BS them about what we teach then people know where they stand in there training and as long as they are improving and feeling good about what they are doing is what I have come to realize after 14 years of having my school in Orleans.

If you have anything else feel free to ask
S.Patenaude

I would like to post this on Bullshido more so because you seem to reply in a clear and concise manner which I appreciate and value. The stories of bar room fights are pretty widely shared but I can also appreciate that this may not always represent you or the 'new version of FSD'. Although I don't always subscribe to the 'why don't we all just get along' paradigm I am always interested in new ways to look at the world.

Edited: Falls under hearsay and as such not applicable to post. TKD

The 'mixed box' event was just that. Although I take nothing away from Scott ad the other guy from stepping up let's call it what it was. A documented MMA fight will appear on Sherdog, FCFighter or any other website. Hell my fights were called in to those sites before the promoter or my coaches could do it, the community takes this pretty seriously and documents the actions of all those involved. (Not to say fights can happen that don't appear there but the odds are against it.) When you add in the comments of a well respected Dog Brother, the story takes a bit of an altered slant.

Was the Jiu Jitsu black belt in question from a Japanese school or a Brazilian school. Not to say it couldn't happen but in my experience from watching you guys grapple there really isn't a strong enough game there to slow down a half way qualified BJJ blue belt. This isn't a slight against you guys as my skills in Pak Sau (sp?) are most likely so pathetic that a white sash would make me look like a beginner, it just isn't my game. I did enjoy the last demo you guys put on in Ottawa though...

As for who I fought, you know I won't say but thanks for asking.

Who did you receive your weapons training from?

How come FSD seems to be a 'jack of all trades; master of none' type MA.

Why did Garry Levac (sp?) say that the teaching method in FSD limited what they taught to students so that the instructor would always have the upper hand?

Would you care to comment on the situation a few weeks back when one of your instructors harassed a person wearing a Machado shirt?

Jack

Hey,

Who is the instructor in question that harrassed a woman a few weeks back? I have always showed respect for people in class and do the same outside of class as well. I don't like when people make stories up or attach it to an instructor all the time. There is all kinds of people in our clubs
and what they do outside of class is out of our hands.

As for the mixed box that you say well to me it looks all the same and every element that I see in the UFC was in the rules of those fights which they won.

The kid thing? Help me out on this one cause it doesn't ring a bell at all and I've been there for a while.

Edited: By Request. TKD

The jack of all trades comment is true to some degree and that is why we have appointed various people to specialize students in specific ranges.

Why Gerry said that I really don't know! I have always taught people to be the best they can be and given them the tools and drills that I practice and the rest is up to them. Like I said before you can't make a pussycat into a tiger just because they do martial arts.

Fights, yeah I've had a few for sure and most of the times it was in a bar and I've always done just fine. I worked in a few bars for about 2 years and saw all sorts of things in the process.

Which demo did you see in Ottawa? We just did one before the shaolin monks in Montreal a few weeks back too.

I just want to confirm that you are okay with me posting the last two emails.

Please confirm.

Jack

Hey ,

Like I said many times before I have nothing to hide so answering them is quite easy when I'm telling the truth. Post them if you like. If there is things that I don't know or want to answer I will let you know but thanks for contacting me before posting.

Well there you have it. My correspondence to date.
Enjoy!

TKD

**illuminati** · Posted On: 5/09/2007 8:47pm

What I don't get is his argument on beating a brown sash. I mean if this person clearly does not have the skillset of a "brown sash", or the ability of a brown sash , why are they appointed to said rank? How can you have brown sashes that utterly SUCK? I mean its hard to find alot of BJJ browns that are simply paper tigers in their MA. If the guy/girl cannot defend themselves at a superior level, or display superior MA skills, they should not be promoted to higher ranks. At my MMA club its written in the contract that there is no guarantee on belt promotions..which to me is the way it should be.

This is my shout out to the white belts for life..you know who u are :)

**n00b** · Posted On: 5/09/2007 8:57pm

Originally Posted by illuminati

What I don't get is his argument on beating a brown sash. I mean if this person clearly does not have the skillset of a "brown sash", or the ability of a brown sash , why are they appointed to said rank?

What we have there is a statement from one of sJP's sons that belt rank in FSD has nothing to do with fighting ability.

**illuminati** · Posted On: 5/09/2007 9:06pm

Originally Posted by n00b

What we have there is a statement from one of sJP's sons that belt rank in FSD has nothing to do with fighting ability.

I can't believe he said "give me his name and I'll tell you whats wrong with him". It shows little confidence in the ability of their higher ranked members. I think that statement is really insulting..

**Tom Kagan** · Posted On: 5/09/2007 9:17pm

Culled from:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53513

I figured this was as good a place as any to start a new thread and make this part a bit easier to follow.

Edit: The thread is open for business.

Yes, this thread was originally closed. That was my mistake in not knowing when you moved posts from a closed thread, the system creates a closed thread.

I didn't notice the status of the new thread. I appreciate the 6 PMs I received pointing out something in the mod system I didn't know to watch out for.

But, sheesh! Stop with the conspiracy theories. You know who you are.

**fanger123** · Posted On: 5/09/2007 9:55pm

so far so good.

maybe Stephane isn't involved/is aware of all the threats/harrsing/attacks that were mentioned.

btw, you really shouldn't compare a brown sash FSD to a brown belt in BJJ. Same colors, but a brown sash may take 3 years, while a brown belt in BJJ might take 10+ years as far as i know.

keep 'em coming dude... it's good stuff to read.

**Iscariot** · Posted On: 5/10/2007 3:35am

Originally Posted by TKD Black Belt

the referree at the event is one that I have seen in the UFC ring on many occasions.

If you've seen this referee many times in the UFC ring then you should be able to name him. Name please.

Why you beat a brown sash? Hmmm I could tell you the same thing on why one of my yellow sashes beat a black belt in karate and tae kwondo in less than 30 seconds or a black belt in ju jitsu got rolled around like a rag doll when blue sash did some grappling only .

Name, style, rank, club and date of this supposed ownage please. This is a process called verification, otherwise your tales hold as much weight as fairytales.

Who did you receive your weapons training from?

This goes unanswered. I expect it to go unanswered again in Tom's list of questions where I have asked probing questions on FSD's swordwork. I suspect that no-one in FSD has a licence to teach swordwork from a qualified governing body.

Just how long has he had to answer your questions Tom?

The jack of all trades comment is true to some degree and that is why we have appointed various people to specialize students in specific ranges.

Who has qualified them at these 'specialist ranges'?

**illuminati** · Posted On: 5/10/2007 6:36am

Originally Posted by fanger123

so far so good.

maybe Stephane isn't involved/is aware of all the threats/harrsing/attacks that were mentioned.

btw, you really shouldn't compare a brown sash FSD to a brown belt in BJJ. Same colors, but a brown sash may take 3 years, while a brown belt in BJJ might take 10+ years as far as i know.

keep 'em coming dude... it's good stuff to read.

If you understand my argument correctly I was not directly comparing the two in terms of training years as opposed to seniority in their respected systems. One should not be able to obtain a "high rank" unless they exhibit superior skills in the specific art. But to go along with your comparison of year-to-year training, to obtain a BJJ blue you need to exhibit a certain level of competency in competition.

**n00b** · Posted On: 5/10/2007 6:45am

Originally Posted by fanger123

btw, you really shouldn't compare a brown sash FSD to a brown belt in BJJ. Same colors, but a brown sash may take 3 years, while a brown belt in BJJ might take 10+ years as far as i know.

It's almost like they should, I don't know, do something crazy, like compete with others schools to see what their objective skill levels are, or something crazy, like that crazy idea.

**Corvus** · Posted On: 5/10/2007 8:21am

Originally Posted by Sifu No BS

WI could tell you the same thing on why one of my yellow sashes beat a black belt in karate and tae kwondo in less than 30 seconds or a black belt in ju jitsu got rolled around like a rag doll when blue sash did some grappling only .

I too would like verification of who, when and where. Otherwise, it's just heresay.

Like Iscariot, I noticed as well that the "Who did you receive your weapons training from?" question went unanswered.

I guess the BIG question has either not been addressed or has not been asked:

Jacques Patenaude claims to have studied and hold ranks in many different martial arts. Which ones has he studied, which rank does he hold and who awarded said rank?

This comes directly from Trafford Publishing:

Sijo started his martial art training at the very young age of nine years old. He has earned black belts in other martial arts during his search for the truth about combat. His martial art background includes experience in Karate, Jiu-Jitsu, Wing Chun, Stick Fighting, and Boxing amongst other styles. A proclaimed creator and self-educated man, Sijo combines the discipline and honor of the martial arts with his unique blend of everyday philosophy.

Which arts does he hold black belts in? (as claimed in the above article)