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  1. DerAuslander is offline
    DerAuslander's Avatar

    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Baltimore, MD
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    18,486

    Posted On:
    9/28/2009 1:16am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan View Post
    It goes both ways. Technically, you're now representing him again.
    Black belt ranks don't work like that.
  2. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    9/28/2009 8:52am

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108 View Post
    Black belt ranks don't work like that.


    I superimposed a Chinese convention on top.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  3. Cougar Spirit is offline

    Registered Member

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    270

    Posted On:
    9/28/2009 11:28am


     Style: Shaolin/Judo/JuJitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, let me throw somethingn out there on this subject. Over the last 40+ years of martial art training, I have seen where when a junior belt defeats a senior belt it is either an impact/immediate promotion of significant progress in points towards promotion. I have seen Judoka promoted at tournaments because of this. All things considered, maybe this guy's old Sensei decided to promote him after his session with the Shodan wound up with the new Shodan being submitted?
  4. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    9/28/2009 2:21pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar Spirit View Post
    Okay, let me throw somethingn out there on this subject. Over the last 40+ years of martial art training, I have seen where when a junior belt defeats a senior belt it is either an impact/immediate promotion of significant progress in points towards promotion. I have seen Judoka promoted at tournaments because of this. All things considered, maybe this guy's old Sensei decided to promote him after his session with the Shodan wound up with the new Shodan being submitted?
    I guess you read the title and not his explanations?
  5. Mr. Machette is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    9/28/2009 4:07pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FMA, Ego Warrior

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan View Post
    A good story:

    My old teacher, Moy Yat (now deceased), was once handed a stack of certificates by one of his students who was big into the whole certificate thing. The student was proposing the idea that Moy Yat give them to the students he recognized as teachers.

    Moy Yat never put much faith in certificates. He was was kind of easygoing in that way, but he also used to humor people, so he started signing the sheets and giving them out. He also made it clear it was just a piece of paper and it meant the student had A LOT to live up to if he or she felt the need to hang it up on the wall. But, Moy Yat didn't really care about the certificates. He'd doodle on them, give them to waiters at local restaurants as tips - he found the whole thing somewhat amusing.

    During the period he was dealing with the short stack of certificates, he would ask me from time to time if I wanted one. I would always reply: "maybe later". One day, he grabbed a paper napkin at a restaurant, wrote a bunch of Chinese ideograms on it, handed it to me, and said: "Here, you're certified".

    My certificate was for hair styling.

    So, I became officially certified in the practice and teaching of the "Moy Yat Hair Cutting System".

    Moy Yat was bald.

    He didn't have much use for hair stylists, either.
    That sounds like you had a good teacher with a great sense of humor!

    I would have liked to meet the guy.
  6. Dsimon3387 is offline

    Senior Member

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    san francisco
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    Posted On:
    9/28/2009 5:16pm

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rank traditionally can be given for:

    a) ability

    b) years training

    c) Service to the art

    d) merging of the art. (not defeat BTw)

    e) succesorship


    When rank is given for these reasons it is dicey but doable:

    a) money (money can service the art)

    b) To recognize a person ("Mr LeBell thank you for the seminar here is an honorary BB in yat gow mein").

    c) After being defeated, as in "here is my art fix it."

    d) training over a distance with tools for assesment that are not immanent. "your video tape is such that you have a black belt."

    These reasons are not generally acceptable though a teacher who has their own style can do what they wish with rank (Tom's story is a good one to illustrate this point).

    a) To reward someone for some transgrassion imagined or otherwise "Mrs smith I realize now you were sexually abused by my senior teacher take this black belt."

    b) after a failing rank test... yes I have seen this done and it is one of the worse mind fucks you can do to somoene "here take the rank anyway and work towards it." you might as well sexually abuse the student.

    c) For sexual favors...

    d) for a great dinner

    e) for a great massage

    g) if all three are combined... maybe ha.


    Ok thats my provincial understanding of the issue. I would add that rank inflation is probably the one thing that ultimately made me actively not pay my membership fees and therefore no longer be a card carrying member of the bujinkan.
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
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