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  1. ronin497 is offline

    Lightweight

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    Aug 2007
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 3:32am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Ex-Tomiki Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyCombatives View Post
    Actually, if someone is saying they are a BB in "MCDOJO MMA" and they are solid and have a good system, is it wrong to do that? I am just asking here. If the students feel it is good and like what they are doing, what is it hurting?
    Because every dojo/training center touts "self defense" as one of their selling points. It's a question of consumer protection, and false advertising.

    Plus, the fact that the hypothetical instructor in question went and awarded himself a "Black Belt" in whatever style means that he needs to inflate his credentials, and that's dishonest.

    Your average soccer mom looking to put their ADD teen into some training isn't going to ask questions past "oooh, he has a black belt."

    I can call myself a Black Belt in my own system, and go ahead an start taking students. Hell, I might come up with a good structured class, and the students might have fun with it. But would they be learning self-defense and real fighting skills?

    The fact that I wouldn't have any certification in grappling/striking/throwing/locks/whatever is a huge deal. When you get a certification as an instructor, it also means that you know a thing or two about SAFETY, and that whatever organization you're part of is confident that you can instruct other people SAFELY.

    Plus, you can't really just invent your own style. Well, you can...but the odds of it being on par with styles that are proven effective in combat is pretty slim.
    Last edited by ronin497; 10/02/2009 3:39am at .
  2. ArmyCombatives is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 3:46am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok, lookin for a response to my question. If someone is running an MMA school lets call it "Billy Bobs MMA" and Billy Bob has legit rankings in say BJJ, Karate and Tang Sudo, and is teaching MMA to students, is this wrong? That is what I was asking.

    Now if someone is running a "Kenpo" school, with a fake BB in lets say "Parker Kenpo" and is shown to not be legit, then yes I agree that is wrong.

    Not sure what the above comment was? Maybe I did not word it right.

    So, am I way off track here? Billy Bob has ranking in a couple of styles, mixes them together, hence the word MIXED, and teaches Mixed Martial Arts. Or can only famous people do that? I think it makes sense for the MMA intstructor to atleast have a few MMA fights, that would help validate it some.

    Ok, thanks
  3. ArmyCombatives is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 4:01am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ronin, right on! I agree with what you are saying. But lets take this school near my house, the guy has ranking in BJJ, Shotokan, and some other stuff, and he teaches self-defense, plus has a fight team. This guy at one time was a wrestler in the WWF, he does not do belts he does levels. Is that something that is more legit?

    I think the way I am trying to say it is, if a person is teaching MMA, not a style, then without a sanctioning board to validate the MMA schools, then who is anyone to question it? Like I said before it is a buyer beware thing.
  4. SaintHamish is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 5:37am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    MMA = $$
    Expert/Black Belt = $$

    These two powers combined.....
  5. Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs is offline
    Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs's Avatar

    fist first Philosopher

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    Sanctuary of Pallas Athena (Belgium)
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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 5:56am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Savate (LBF/SD/LC) - BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why a sanctioned MMA federation wonít / will work. A story about Billy Bob.

    Billy Bob was a vived CMA practisener, yet of styles and training regimes that worked. No _ing _un for him, but Sanda and Shuia Jiao.
    Through highschool and college he was quiet successful on the wrestling team and after his education he even joined a Freestyle Wrestling club.

    Billy Bob competed in the three styles, not at top level, but at sub-top level. Years pasted by and he came to the conclusion that mixing his styles to one form would be better than training and teaching them seperated.
    So he created CCMMA (Chinese/Caucasian Mixed Martial Arts).
    He added colored rashguards, funny colours for students and black with a number for instructors / senior students, so that trainingpartners never were outmatched. That was the only purpose.

    The CCMMA club was succesful and produced several fighters that won MMA competitions establizing his club and him as an instructor / coach.
    Soon after Billy Bob opened a second CCMMA club in a nearby town, the students of both clubs could train with eachother because of the rashguard system and that both clubs had the same training / teaching ethics.

    Again time passed, Billy Bob had opened himself 6 clubs, and his higher ranking rashguards had also opened clubs, which kept with the CCMMA training method.
    So a funny coloured rashguard or a black rashguard from one CCMMA club could join another CCMMA club and everyone there would know his level so training mismatches were avoided. But the CCMMA rashguards are only valid in the clubs that were original created by Billy Bob or descendant clubs from these.

    Billy Bobís wasnít the only flavor of MMA.
    Ivan leBeau mixed Savate and SAMBO to FRMMA (Franco-Russian MMA) that was also succesful in MMA competitions. Ivan liked Billy Bobís rashguard idea and adapted it to his clubs.

    Yet while rashguards of both systems were respected in the MMA community, every CCMMA or FRMMA rashguards knew that their ranking only was valid in their own Federation.


    There were people that didnít understand it, mixing their previous training into ď[name of founder]ís MMAĒ. Giving out black rashguards and riding on the reputation of CCMMA and FRMMA.
    Some of these MMA clubs mixed decent MAís, but exist only in one or two clubs and still need the time to grow into a federation of hundred of clubs.
    Others mixed awfull MAís and exercise programs and just wanted to cash in on the craze.

    The conclusion is that rashguards only work in one flavour of MMA, the one in which the original rashguards were awarded. No rashguard can keep its value in all the flavours of MMA.

    * Change Billy Bobís name into Jigoro Kano, Ivan leBeau into Mas Oyama ant rashguards into belts and this story will work for the (T)MAís *

    So is a BB in MMA valid? Yes but only to that system of MMA. The credibility of that system of MMA can only be establized through competition results.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:
  6. Coach Josh is offline
    Coach Josh's Avatar

    Silent Guardian

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 8:06am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would like to make a point that no one seems to understand. You don't teach or train MMA. You teach or train in respective disciplines, BJJ, boxing, fumanchu and whatever, and then apply them to an MMA rule set.

    I consider myself an MMA coach but I really don't teach MMA. We teach Judo, BJJ, boxing, Muay Thai and sub grappling. While I say I am an MMA trainer I only help the guys integrate all the techniques that we teach them in the respective classes along with cage specific tactics. Our MMA class consist of putting on the pads and sparring with helpful advice during, between and after rounds. Specific technique training is taught in the classes.

    Being an MMA trainer doesn't mean your an expert in all areas but that you have an understanding of each area.

    The silly colored rash guard thing is what we are considering since we have 4 Gladiators Academy in the state now. Instead of Kano and Oyama we have Creduer and Clementi, LOL.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  7. Matt Phillips is offline
    Matt Phillips's Avatar

    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 8:23am

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The whole semantic argument hinges on Blatnik's poor choice of words. "Mixed Martial Arts" is not a particularly good name for a combat sport, especially one whose athletes almost exclusively get their training from coaches in various other combat sports.

    I've never like the term MMA... NHB referred to the mode of competition, not the techniques used in it.

    NHB, Vale Tudo, Lute Livre, SanDa, Muaythai: They all mean "Freestyle Fighting".
    MMA can mean anything from MT+BJJ, to Draka + SAMBO, to Krotty + Aikido. As a name for the sport, frankly it sucks.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  8. Nicko1 is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2009 2:03am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    I would like to make a point that no one seems to understand. You don't teach or train MMA. You teach or train in respective disciplines, BJJ, boxing, fumanchu and whatever, and then apply them to an MMA rule set.
    This is why offering a BB in MMA is inherently deceptive. Someone offering a BB in MMA is either attempting to decieve their students (current or prospective) as to what MMA is, or is themselves ignorant on the subject.
  9. SaintHamish is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2009 2:57am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    NHB, Vale Tudo, Lutre Livre, SanDa, Muaythai: They all mean "Freestyle Fighting".
    MMA can mean anything from MT+BJJ, to Draka + SAMBO, to Krotty + Aikido. As a name for the sport, frankly it sucks.

    MMA as a title for a sport in which athletes compete in limited rules combat or freestyle fighting stinks of poo.....Shoulda stuck with NHB, it has the more.....EXTREME feel to it.......IMO
  10. SaintHamish is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2009 3:03am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicko1 View Post
    This is why offering a BB in MMA is inherently deceptive. Someone offering a BB in MMA is either attempting to decieve their students (current or prospective) as to what MMA is, or is themselves ignorant on the subject.
    Only if the teacher gives the student an impression that with a BB in MMA they subsequently become somewhat of an expert in BJJ or another specific form of MA.

    We have MMA schools here which advertise in teaching a mixed form of fighting inspired by submission grappling and striking elements, but in no way advertise or teach a specific form of MA.......
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