Black Belt in Mixed Martial Arts?

**ronin497** · Posted On: 10/02/2009 3:32am

Originally Posted by ArmyCombatives

Actually, if someone is saying they are a BB in "MCDOJO MMA" and they are solid and have a good system, is it wrong to do that? I am just asking here. If the students feel it is good and like what they are doing, what is it hurting?

Because every dojo/training center touts "self defense" as one of their selling points. It's a question of consumer protection, and false advertising.

Plus, the fact that the hypothetical instructor in question went and awarded himself a "Black Belt" in whatever style means that he needs to inflate his credentials, and that's dishonest.

Your average soccer mom looking to put their ADD teen into some training isn't going to ask questions past "oooh, he has a black belt."

I can call myself a Black Belt in my own system, and go ahead an start taking students. Hell, I might come up with a good structured class, and the students might have fun with it. But would they be learning self-defense and real fighting skills?

The fact that I wouldn't have any certification in grappling/striking/throwing/locks/whatever is a huge deal. When you get a certification as an instructor, it also means that you know a thing or two about SAFETY, and that whatever organization you're part of is confident that you can instruct other people SAFELY.

Plus, you can't really just invent your own style. Well, you can...but the odds of it being on par with styles that are proven effective in combat is pretty slim.

**ArmyCombatives** · Posted On: 10/02/2009 3:46am

Ok, lookin for a response to my question. If someone is running an MMA school lets call it "Billy Bobs MMA" and Billy Bob has legit rankings in say BJJ, Karate and Tang Sudo, and is teaching MMA to students, is this wrong? That is what I was asking.

Now if someone is running a "Kenpo" school, with a fake BB in lets say "Parker Kenpo" and is shown to not be legit, then yes I agree that is wrong.

Not sure what the above comment was? Maybe I did not word it right.

So, am I way off track here? Billy Bob has ranking in a couple of styles, mixes them together, hence the word MIXED, and teaches Mixed Martial Arts. Or can only famous people do that? I think it makes sense for the MMA intstructor to atleast have a few MMA fights, that would help validate it some.

Ok, thanks

**ArmyCombatives** · Posted On: 10/02/2009 4:01am

Ronin, right on! I agree with what you are saying. But lets take this school near my house, the guy has ranking in BJJ, Shotokan, and some other stuff, and he teaches self-defense, plus has a fight team. This guy at one time was a wrestler in the WWF, he does not do belts he does levels. Is that something that is more legit?

I think the way I am trying to say it is, if a person is teaching MMA, not a style, then without a sanctioning board to validate the MMA schools, then who is anyone to question it? Like I said before it is a buyer beware thing.

**SaintHamish** · Posted On: 10/02/2009 5:37am

MMA = $$
Expert/Black Belt = $$

These two powers combined.....

**Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs** · Posted On: 10/02/2009 5:56am

Why a sanctioned MMA federation won’t / will work. A story about Billy Bob.

Billy Bob was a vived CMA practisener, yet of styles and training regimes that worked. No _ing _un for him, but Sanda and Shuia Jiao.
Through highschool and college he was quiet successful on the wrestling team and after his education he even joined a Freestyle Wrestling club.

Billy Bob competed in the three styles, not at top level, but at sub-top level. Years pasted by and he came to the conclusion that mixing his styles to one form would be better than training and teaching them seperated.
So he created CCMMA (Chinese/Caucasian Mixed Martial Arts).
He added colored rashguards, funny colours for students and black with a number for instructors / senior students, so that trainingpartners never were outmatched. That was the only purpose.

The CCMMA club was succesful and produced several fighters that won MMA competitions establizing his club and him as an instructor / coach.
Soon after Billy Bob opened a second CCMMA club in a nearby town, the students of both clubs could train with eachother because of the rashguard system and that both clubs had the same training / teaching ethics.

Again time passed, Billy Bob had opened himself 6 clubs, and his higher ranking rashguards had also opened clubs, which kept with the CCMMA training method.
So a funny coloured rashguard or a black rashguard from one CCMMA club could join another CCMMA club and everyone there would know his level so training mismatches were avoided. But the CCMMA rashguards are only valid in the clubs that were original created by Billy Bob or descendant clubs from these.

Billy Bob’s wasn’t the only flavor of MMA.
Ivan leBeau mixed Savate and SAMBO to FRMMA (Franco-Russian MMA) that was also succesful in MMA competitions. Ivan liked Billy Bob’s rashguard idea and adapted it to his clubs.

Yet while rashguards of both systems were respected in the MMA community, every CCMMA or FRMMA rashguards knew that their ranking only was valid in their own Federation.

There were people that didn’t understand it, mixing their previous training into “[name of founder]’s MMA”. Giving out black rashguards and riding on the reputation of CCMMA and FRMMA.
Some of these MMA clubs mixed decent MA’s, but exist only in one or two clubs and still need the time to grow into a federation of hundred of clubs.
Others mixed awfull MA’s and exercise programs and just wanted to cash in on the craze.

The conclusion is that rashguards only work in one flavour of MMA, the one in which the original rashguards were awarded. No rashguard can keep its value in all the flavours of MMA.

* Change Billy Bob’s name into Jigoro Kano, Ivan leBeau into Mas Oyama ant rashguards into belts and this story will work for the (T)MA’s *

So is a BB in MMA valid? Yes but only to that system of MMA. The credibility of that system of MMA can only be establized through competition results.

**Coach Josh** · Posted On: 10/02/2009 8:06am

I would like to make a point that no one seems to understand. You don't teach or train MMA. You teach or train in respective disciplines, BJJ, boxing, fumanchu and whatever, and then apply them to an MMA rule set.

I consider myself an MMA coach but I really don't teach MMA. We teach Judo, BJJ, boxing, Muay Thai and sub grappling. While I say I am an MMA trainer I only help the guys integrate all the techniques that we teach them in the respective classes along with cage specific tactics. Our MMA class consist of putting on the pads and sparring with helpful advice during, between and after rounds. Specific technique training is taught in the classes.

Being an MMA trainer doesn't mean your an expert in all areas but that you have an understanding of each area.

The silly colored rash guard thing is what we are considering since we have 4 Gladiators Academy in the state now. Instead of Kano and Oyama we have Creduer and Clementi, LOL.

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 10/02/2009 8:23am

The whole semantic argument hinges on Blatnik's poor choice of words. "Mixed Martial Arts" is not a particularly good name for a combat sport, especially one whose athletes almost exclusively get their training from coaches in various other combat sports.

I've never like the term MMA... NHB referred to the mode of competition, not the techniques used in it.

NHB, Vale Tudo, Lute Livre, SanDa, Muaythai: They all mean "Freestyle Fighting".
MMA can mean anything from MT+BJJ, to Draka + SAMBO, to Krotty + Aikido. As a name for the sport, frankly it sucks.

**Nicko1** · Posted On: 10/03/2009 2:03am

Originally Posted by Coach Josh

I would like to make a point that no one seems to understand. You don't teach or train MMA. You teach or train in respective disciplines, BJJ, boxing, fumanchu and whatever, and then apply them to an MMA rule set.

This is why offering a BB in MMA is inherently deceptive. Someone offering a BB in MMA is either attempting to decieve their students (current or prospective) as to what MMA is, or is themselves ignorant on the subject.

**SaintHamish** · Posted On: 10/03/2009 2:57am

NHB, Vale Tudo, Lutre Livre, SanDa, Muaythai: They all mean "Freestyle Fighting".
MMA can mean anything from MT+BJJ, to Draka + SAMBO, to Krotty + Aikido. As a name for the sport, frankly it sucks.

MMA as a title for a sport in which athletes compete in limited rules combat or freestyle fighting stinks of poo.....Shoulda stuck with NHB, it has the more.....EXTREME feel to it.......IMO

**SaintHamish** · Posted On: 10/03/2009 3:03am

Originally Posted by Nicko1

This is why offering a BB in MMA is inherently deceptive. Someone offering a BB in MMA is either attempting to decieve their students (current or prospective) as to what MMA is, or is themselves ignorant on the subject.

Only if the teacher gives the student an impression that with a BB in MMA they subsequently become somewhat of an expert in BJJ or another specific form of MA.

We have MMA schools here which advertise in teaching a mixed form of fighting inspired by submission grappling and striking elements, but in no way advertise or teach a specific form of MA.......