9/23/2009 12:29am, #21
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
I agree with Ronin497 that their unwillingness to have someone with MMA experience spar with their students is a red flag. An enormous glow-in-the-dark red flag on a red neon pole. The only explanation that I can think of is that they don't want to be shown up in front of their students.
Whether or not black belts can be issued in a style is not really the question here. It was only brought up to illustrate that these instructors are not qualified to teach MMA (ie. they have insufficent experience to do so). I assume they are qualified to teach karate (where BBs are an indicator of experience) and instruct the basics of BJJ (where belts are a more reliable indicator of experience). They are not experienced in MMA, however, and cannot legitamately offer BBs, Red Sashes, Certificates of Proficency or Gold Stars in it.
Elipson has made a valid point that there is no governing body to regulate the teaching of MMA. I would respectfuly counter that there is no governing body for basketmakers either, yet I am not qualified to teach basketmaking. Why? Because I can't make baskets.
The problem with this school, is that they simply seek to cash in on the popularity of the UFC etc. Imagine some young kid who signs up at this school with dreams of an MMA career, only to realise a couple of years (and who knows how many $$$) later he has to start again from scratch.
9/23/2009 12:39am, #22I would respectfuly counter that there is no governing body for basketmakers either, yet I am not qualified to teach basketmaking. Why? Because I can't make baskets.
The point im trying to make is that NOT receiving your rank from an organization or person with a good reputation doesn't actually mean anything.
Claiming false rank should be a crime, and genuinely receiving rank from a good source should mean something (but only as much as you respect the source), but simply saying you have a black belt should mean little or nothing in your appraisal of an instructor.
Perhaps an illustration.
I've been in BJJ for maybe 6-7 years, on and off due to complications, but I've never received a rank. Yet, if I were to enter a BJJ competition, I would enter the blue belt division, because that's about the level I feel I'm at based on how well I have done against other belts from different schools. When I briefly trained at a Gracie club, I wore a white belt as part of the Gi, but it was obvious to everyone that I wasn't really a white belt. The instructor made sure I spent most of my time getting smacked around by the higher belts. (I didn't stay long enough to receive a rank at that school, which is a damn shame).
This debate stems from my deep dislike of belts in general and how they were never REALLY meant to be as important as they became.
Like I said, the school seems ok but you can only tell via an actual test of themselves or their students. Not letting someone train there would be enough for me to not bother with them, but that's just me.
Last edited by elipson; 9/23/2009 12:47am at .
9/25/2009 5:00am, #23
We give belts to our kids MMA program. Not a problem IMO. Yes we made it all up as far as what they need for each rank. Adults, no rank or anything.
The issue of ranking is not the problem IMO, as in our case it is an in house thing and we have good standards. Th issue is are they QUALIFIED to give rank. Do they have the skill and teaching ability.
9/25/2009 11:55pm, #24
Having a black belt in mma is like saying you have a phd in college."We often joke -- and we really wish it were a joke -- that you will only encounter two basic problems with your 'self-defense' training.
1) That it doesn't work
2) That it does work"
9/26/2009 2:08am, #25
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
As the new guy, I am gonna throw in my 2 cents, and hopefully dont get pumelled for it. But MMA is exactly that, Mixed. The compulation and effect of many diffrent things to achieve an end result. Some people feel a wrestling back ground is really important, some feel a strong boxing back ground. It all comes down to apples and oranges in my belief. Any one who has fought or been in a fight, knows that there is no one answer to a situation. working to get the "one move" you are comfortable with will get your ass kicked. Alot of concern over the word Black Belt. If a person has a mixed background, and an effective fighting style, then why cant they give it a belt structure? Its thiers isn't it? Just curious?
9/26/2009 6:53am, #26
- Join Date
- Oct 2004
- Daytona Beach, FL
9/26/2009 1:18pm, #27
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
I understand what you are saying, but I think alot of people lose the meaning of MMA because people throw words around like BJJ, Judo, Karate. The point of MMA is its not really a style (atleast my thought). It is a mixture of things a bunch of fighters started putting together to create a fighting method, mostly for fighting competitions, and yes you are correct alot of people are trying to make money off the words MMA. Think back to when this all started, UFC, Gracie was introduced as a BJJ fighter, other where introduced a TKD, or Karate. I can remember watching the UFC years ago, and fighters actually got introduced with a style..... The point I am trying to make here is as it developed, other fighters, Ken Shamrock, and others started showing up as MMA, they were not well known Martial Artists, but the dudes could fight and whoop ass, so MMA took off. I mean honestly, I dont know what to call my self, I am trained in Army Combatives, I dont care about a belt, I am a wrestler, a boxer, a brawler, and it all works well together. Know what I am saying. can I call myself a student or practitioner of MMA? will I be torn to shreds by people because I claim (also am willing to prove) my fight ability? I understand what you are saying about the schools, and they are in it to make money....... the only way you will ever know is go to the school, work out, check it out, if you dont agree, respectfully state so, and prove it if they give you the opportunity. Hope I did not piss to many people off, but lets get past it already. MMA is not a sanctioned or controlled art, it is a title of a bunch of things all wrapped up in one. BJJ, JUDO, wrestling, boxing, Mui Tai and whatever else you wanna throw in there that is effective and produces the ability to whoop some ass. Ok, thanks
9/26/2009 1:22pm, #28Hope I did not piss to many people off, but lets get past it already.
9/30/2009 11:59am, #29
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
ArmyCombatives, let me simplify what you said.
MMA is a ruleset. Period. In order to fight under that ruleset you need to be a good all round fighter. Therefore you need to train in many Martial Arts. You cant have a BB in MMA since its not a system of combat(yet). It's simply a ruleset.
*waits for people to scream ' MMA IS NOT A RULESET! IT"S A SPORT! '*
9/30/2009 12:46pm, #30
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
idk. what about boxing?
Could i only train "point sparring karate," enter a boxing match, and be a professional boxer?
Or are there defined training methods?
And the same with MMA. Can i enter a MMA match with whatever training i want (and consider myself a MMA practitioner) ? or are there defined training methods?
I've heard a coach i like say that MMA ISN'T MT + BJJ + whatever... MMA IS MMA. There are many aspects of MT that do not apply in MMA just like there are many aspects of BJJ that do not apply.
Every move you train at a boxing gym gets used in a boxing match, no?
Last edited by RandomTriangle; 9/30/2009 1:01pm at .