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  1. Nicko1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2009 12:29am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with Ronin497 that their unwillingness to have someone with MMA experience spar with their students is a red flag. An enormous glow-in-the-dark red flag on a red neon pole. The only explanation that I can think of is that they don't want to be shown up in front of their students.

    Whether or not black belts can be issued in a style is not really the question here. It was only brought up to illustrate that these instructors are not qualified to teach MMA (ie. they have insufficent experience to do so). I assume they are qualified to teach karate (where BBs are an indicator of experience) and instruct the basics of BJJ (where belts are a more reliable indicator of experience). They are not experienced in MMA, however, and cannot legitamately offer BBs, Red Sashes, Certificates of Proficency or Gold Stars in it.

    Elipson has made a valid point that there is no governing body to regulate the teaching of MMA. I would respectfuly counter that there is no governing body for basketmakers either, yet I am not qualified to teach basketmaking. Why? Because I can't make baskets.

    The problem with this school, is that they simply seek to cash in on the popularity of the UFC etc. Imagine some young kid who signs up at this school with dreams of an MMA career, only to realise a couple of years (and who knows how many $$$) later he has to start again from scratch.
  2. elipson is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2009 12:39am

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     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would respectfuly counter that there is no governing body for basketmakers either, yet I am not qualified to teach basketmaking. Why? Because I can't make baskets.
    And the point im trying to make is that having a governing body sanction you or not sanction you has nothing to do with how well you make baskets. A person may respect a specific sanctioning body, but that's only because they have earned a good reputation over the years, a reputation which begins from their ability to make baskets in the first place, and nothing else.

    The point im trying to make is that NOT receiving your rank from an organization or person with a good reputation doesn't actually mean anything.

    Claiming false rank should be a crime, and genuinely receiving rank from a good source should mean something (but only as much as you respect the source), but simply saying you have a black belt should mean little or nothing in your appraisal of an instructor.

    Perhaps an illustration.

    I've been in BJJ for maybe 6-7 years, on and off due to complications, but I've never received a rank. Yet, if I were to enter a BJJ competition, I would enter the blue belt division, because that's about the level I feel I'm at based on how well I have done against other belts from different schools. When I briefly trained at a Gracie club, I wore a white belt as part of the Gi, but it was obvious to everyone that I wasn't really a white belt. The instructor made sure I spent most of my time getting smacked around by the higher belts. (I didn't stay long enough to receive a rank at that school, which is a damn shame).

    This debate stems from my deep dislike of belts in general and how they were never REALLY meant to be as important as they became.


    Like I said, the school seems ok but you can only tell via an actual test of themselves or their students. Not letting someone train there would be enough for me to not bother with them, but that's just me.
    Last edited by elipson; 9/23/2009 12:47am at .
  3. LI GUY 1 is offline
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    GIJoe6186 like boys, mainly his brother

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2009 5:00am

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We give belts to our kids MMA program. Not a problem IMO. Yes we made it all up as far as what they need for each rank. Adults, no rank or anything.

    The issue of ranking is not the problem IMO, as in our case it is an in house thing and we have good standards. Th issue is are they QUALIFIED to give rank. Do they have the skill and teaching ability.
  4. crappler is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/25/2009 11:55pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Having a black belt in mma is like saying you have a phd in college.
    "We often joke -- and we really wish it were a joke -- that you will only encounter two basic problems with your 'self-defense' training.
    1) That it doesn't work
    2) That it does work"
    -Animal MacYoung
  5. ArmyCombatives is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2009 2:08am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As the new guy, I am gonna throw in my 2 cents, and hopefully dont get pumelled for it. But MMA is exactly that, Mixed. The compulation and effect of many diffrent things to achieve an end result. Some people feel a wrestling back ground is really important, some feel a strong boxing back ground. It all comes down to apples and oranges in my belief. Any one who has fought or been in a fight, knows that there is no one answer to a situation. working to get the "one move" you are comfortable with will get your ass kicked. Alot of concern over the word Black Belt. If a person has a mixed background, and an effective fighting style, then why cant they give it a belt structure? Its thiers isn't it? Just curious?
  6. SORT14 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2009 6:53am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyCombatives View Post
    As the new guy, I am gonna throw in my 2 cents, and hopefully dont get pumelled for it. But MMA is exactly that, Mixed. The compulation and effect of many diffrent things to achieve an end result. Some people feel a wrestling back ground is really important, some feel a strong boxing back ground. It all comes down to apples and oranges in my belief. Any one who has fought or been in a fight, knows that there is no one answer to a situation. working to get the "one move" you are comfortable with will get your ass kicked. Alot of concern over the word Black Belt. If a person has a mixed background, and an effective fighting style, then why cant they give it a belt structure? Its thiers isn't it? Just curious?
    Yes, but does that mean anyone can go around combining Rex Kwon Do with Crapkido and claim they are a MMA expert when that is clearly not the case? Of course they can, but that is not truly what MMA is. I see your point, but I believe that anyone does that type of stuff doesn't really practice Mixed Martial Arts, but tries to get by on a technicality. If you're good at Karate, or Arnis, then why not just advertise that? I know why a lot of McDojos are advertising MMA (because it is popular and therefore a business move), but I just wander if its ethical. Buyer beware, I guess.
  7. ArmyCombatives is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2009 1:18pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I understand what you are saying, but I think alot of people lose the meaning of MMA because people throw words around like BJJ, Judo, Karate. The point of MMA is its not really a style (atleast my thought). It is a mixture of things a bunch of fighters started putting together to create a fighting method, mostly for fighting competitions, and yes you are correct alot of people are trying to make money off the words MMA. Think back to when this all started, UFC, Gracie was introduced as a BJJ fighter, other where introduced a TKD, or Karate. I can remember watching the UFC years ago, and fighters actually got introduced with a style..... The point I am trying to make here is as it developed, other fighters, Ken Shamrock, and others started showing up as MMA, they were not well known Martial Artists, but the dudes could fight and whoop ass, so MMA took off. I mean honestly, I dont know what to call my self, I am trained in Army Combatives, I dont care about a belt, I am a wrestler, a boxer, a brawler, and it all works well together. Know what I am saying. can I call myself a student or practitioner of MMA? will I be torn to shreds by people because I claim (also am willing to prove) my fight ability? I understand what you are saying about the schools, and they are in it to make money....... the only way you will ever know is go to the school, work out, check it out, if you dont agree, respectfully state so, and prove it if they give you the opportunity. Hope I did not piss to many people off, but lets get past it already. MMA is not a sanctioned or controlled art, it is a title of a bunch of things all wrapped up in one. BJJ, JUDO, wrestling, boxing, Mui Tai and whatever else you wanna throw in there that is effective and produces the ability to whoop some ass. Ok, thanks
  8. elipson is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/26/2009 1:22pm

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     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hope I did not piss to many people off, but lets get past it already.
    It's ok, you're allowed to do that here.
  9. FLMKane is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/30/2009 11:59am


     Style: Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ArmyCombatives, let me simplify what you said.

    MMA is a ruleset. Period. In order to fight under that ruleset you need to be a good all round fighter. Therefore you need to train in many Martial Arts. You cant have a BB in MMA since its not a system of combat(yet). It's simply a ruleset.

    *waits for people to scream ' MMA IS NOT A RULESET! IT"S A SPORT! '*
  10. RandomTriangle is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/30/2009 12:46pm


     Style: Judo-Brown

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    idk. what about boxing?

    Could i only train "point sparring karate," enter a boxing match, and be a professional boxer?

    Or are there defined training methods?

    And the same with MMA. Can i enter a MMA match with whatever training i want (and consider myself a MMA practitioner) ? or are there defined training methods?

    idk.

    I've heard a coach i like say that MMA ISN'T MT + BJJ + whatever... MMA IS MMA. There are many aspects of MT that do not apply in MMA just like there are many aspects of BJJ that do not apply.

    Every move you train at a boxing gym gets used in a boxing match, no?
    Last edited by RandomTriangle; 9/30/2009 1:01pm at .
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