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  1. fadfad is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    21

    Posted On:
    9/17/2009 9:48pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Warcraft 3

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Serious question regarding BJJ vs MASSIVE strength

    Been doing it for 1.5 years. I am 6'1 170-175 of muscle that can match a 180-185 guy. I can tap blue belts (not all, only the newer ones) and I'm not bragging at all, just want to give a thorough background. Also my account is a troll so I don't seriously waste time with any of the **** it says. I just don't know who else to ask.

    Theres a guy at my gym, 200 pounds of competitive weight lifter type muscle. He is only about 5'10, or 5'11 at most. Maybe 6 months of 'training'. But **** me, here is the roll every single fucking time.

    Open guard -> fight for getting my guard/he fights for side -> if i get guard (it happens 1/2 or 1/3 times now because his 1 arm can throw me to the side) -> if i get to guard he just pushes my leg down while posturing up and muscles into side or restart process -> If i try for submission he grabs a leg and muscles it to the side (for example when my leg goes over his neck for the triangle, he pushes it over. And triangle is my best move, I get blues with it.)

    Finally once in side control he literally keeps me there, my side escapes are not bad. For 1.5 years I've been dominated until finally no one can keep side on me except him. He literally just holds me down for 5 fucking minutes until finally muscles a kimura. If he tries for mount he loses the position due to skill difference and restart process.

    I have NO idea how to deal with this. When in side it seems like it's game over, like Cock chestner destroying Mir by muscle and nothing else. I can't get out, cant push him up. It's very tight, and jesus I feel like I cant make the position any looser for him because of that simply ridiculous strength.

    Please help from a purple or over. I have no idea what to do. P.s. I train 3-5 days a week. and "train 5 years more than him" is not an answer to me that feels like strength > bjj. To be honest I feel like strength and some knowledge of bjj > bjj.

    <3
  2. Kintanon is offline
    Kintanon's Avatar

    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Athens, Ga
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    5,683

    Posted On:
    9/17/2009 10:08pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, we have gone over this before. Skill is an equalizer. It allows someone who is smaller AND TRAINED to overcome someone who is larger/stronger and NOT TRAINED. The bigger/stronger you are, the less training you need to bridge that gap.
    Your solution is to hit the weights AND train harder. Get stronger as well as more skilled.
    I'm 5'7", I was 135lbs a year ago. I was rolling with a competitive weightlifted in the 220lb range. The guy could curl my body weight in each hand. I tapped him out with an armbar and a triangle when he first started messing with me. After he'd been playing with us for about 3 months I could no longer tap him out.
    Size and strength DO MATTER. Get Some.
  3. Blue Negation is offline

    Woke up in the mortuary

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    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ohio
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    1,228

    Posted On:
    9/17/2009 10:23pm


     Style: Judo, Sub wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Get lost, troll. You forgot to change your style field before trying to get in the white belts' heads.
  4. ronaldk is offline

    Registered Member

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    Nov 2006
    Location
    santo domingo, dominican republic
    Posts
    961

    Posted On:
    9/17/2009 10:52pm


     Style: BJJ / freestyle wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i'm a 5'10" fit 185lbs whitebelt with almost 2 years of training, but if i am allowed to chime in, given i've rolled with some HUGE mofos (STRONG 200, 220, and even 250lbs guys, for instance, Abraham Marte, who aside from being over 6'5" for sure, and over 220lbs, is a purple belt mundials gold medalist) at my gym...

    do NOT play guard.

    sitting down, and waiting for him to try to pass is a BAD idea, unless you have an insanely amazing guard full of booby traps. and by your post, you've stated you don't, at least against him.

    if starting from standing, and your takedowns are decent, you shouldn't have that much of a problem. if he is that less experienced than you, IMO you should be able to take him down before he can take you down. if you start from knees, DON'T allow him to get on a position where he can muscle you. KEEP MOVING. KEEEEP moving. circle around him. tire him out. even if he is in good shape, grappling tends to really burn out the inexperienced. if you can tire him out, he may not be able to use that strength advantage.

    reflect on your game. this also tends to happen to guys who are used to being one of the bigger ones in class, and using muscle where they lack skill. if you are used to this, it is a rude awakening the day you fight a guy with that much more strength than you.

    finally, look for that little dude in your gym who has a sick game. ask him what tips and tricks he's learned help him close the gap with bigger guys. i learned from one such guy at my gym, 5'5", about 135lbs, but triangles and armbars the **** outta everyone. he's used to ALWAYS feeling the strength disadvantage, and has had to make up for it. he is the man to talk to.
  5. fadfad is offline

    Featherweight

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    Jan 2007
    Posts
    21

    Posted On:
    9/17/2009 10:57pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Warcraft 3

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    heh, hard to keep moving once the grappling is going. Guess theres nothing but to keep learning maybe one day naturally beating the strength :S Though Mir can attest that it'll probably never happen heh.
  6. Holy Moment is offline
    Holy Moment's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Aug 2006
    Location
    Shitsville
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    3,977

    Posted On:
    9/17/2009 11:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Put some meat on your bones, *****.
  7. DKJr is online now
    DKJr's Avatar

    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off

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    Dec 2007
    Location
    Dallas
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    3,221

    Posted On:
    9/17/2009 11:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: Combat Cuddling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's whats probably happening. When you catch blues you're probably muscling the **** out of it and they are too unathletic or not good enough to stop you. Now that you're up against superfreak strongman you're getting beat at your own game. I'm a lean Jeff Glover but more fat style guy. I can't out strength your grandmother. How I escape in side control is in increments.

    Think of it like this slowly shift and shift and shift yourself into the point you feel like you can bridge and connect your knee to your elbow, then do it. Timing will come with mat time, but I'm wiling to bet the farm that your escapes have been mainly due to athleticism rather than proficiency. Now it's time to slow down and grab your nearest strong as hell brown belt and work your escapes.
  8. Condemned is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    17

    Posted On:
    9/17/2009 11:48pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    Yes, we have gone over this before. Skill is an equalizer. It allows someone who is smaller AND TRAINED to overcome someone who is larger/stronger and NOT TRAINED. The bigger/stronger you are, the less training you need to bridge that gap.
    Your solution is to hit the weights AND train harder. Get stronger as well as more skilled.
    I'm 5'7", I was 135lbs a year ago. I was rolling with a competitive weightlifted in the 220lb range. The guy could curl my body weight in each hand. I tapped him out with an armbar and a triangle when he first started messing with me. After he'd been playing with us for about 3 months I could no longer tap him out.
    Size and strength DO MATTER. Get Some.
    That's very interesting. I say that because I can't remember how often I've heard the weight training argument in other style forums, both for and against. I've never thought about it for serious rolling as I am a newbie to grappling ways. It was always taken for granted as pro wrestlers and wrestlers in general are usually beasts! (in size and strength) So, I guess my question is for all of you serious rollers, does weight training help or interfere with skill development? Is rolling with a variety of opponents the best way to develop, or are weights also needed?

    Also, is weight training viable for older rollers, or is it a strictly younger guy thing? I mean in terms of really adding strength?
  9. Sley is offline

    mr. Hobbes

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,390

    Posted On:
    9/18/2009 12:48am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I play Guard on them, then I do the crazy ass lanky man switch to back mount, body triangle and wait, poking chokes in and out, its relaxing really, like choking drills.

    Sweeps, particular the scissor sweep works abnormally on untrained muscle men, don't know why they just seem to have poor balance.
  10. Hedgehogey is offline
    Hedgehogey's Avatar

    Tsun-Derrorist

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    5,332

    Posted On:
    9/18/2009 12:59am

    supporting member
     Style: ^_^

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You have two problems.

    Problem #1:

    He's muscling out of your lower body to upper body attacks. There's so many possible things going wrong there, I don't know where to start. This would more resemble calling your ISP's tech support, without the clear longing for death and annoying music on the other side of the phone. What could possibly be wrong:

    -You're not breaking his posture.

    -You're thinking of triangle (most upper body guard subs in fact) as exclusively a sub rather than a position you launch attacks from. Do you have a following attack for every possible position he could put his arm in when you throw your legs over?

    -You're forgetting that there are guards dedicated to controlling the lower body. Worked your butterfly or deep half lately?

    Problem 2: You can't escape his side

    Same thing. So many things could be wrong here. Are you throwing your foot over to catch his shin when he doesn't expect it? Are you staying on your side? Do you know you're pretty much guaranteed an escape if you can get both underhooks? Are you unafraid to turtle? If you're afraid to turtle out of side, take remedial turtling.

    If none of those (truly) work (and not just because you kinda pummeled once and gave up or something) then you might check out my videos on coccoon guard. I don't normally even show this to white belts because it's easy for yall to get stupid with this and cradle yourselves or something, but here it is:

    YouTube - The Cocoon Guard
    YouTube - Cocoon Guard - Trouble Shooting Part I
    YouTube - Cocoon Guard - Trouble Shooting Part II


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