222001 Bullies, 4049 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 81 to 88 of 88
Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ... 56789
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. erezb is offline
    erezb's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,260

    Posted On:
    12/17/2011 4:53am


     Style: Boxing,Kickboxing K1

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kambei Shimada View Post
    Its interesting to see how western boxing has to be adapted for bare knuckle fighting.

    The hands tend to be rested slightly further away from the face.
    (due to the fact there's no gloves to help 'absorb' shots)

    The Knacker (pikey) videos are interesting there's a fair amount of very traditional stances and a lack of head movement.

    I think it is hard to compare a pro boxer to one of the street fighters (Irish), i think their level of boxing is much lower (though they definitely train in boxing) hence less "head movement" i also haven't seen any good counter punches or even body punches and i don't think its necessarily a stile difference as more a level difference.
    Someone that has a future in Boxing wouldn't engage in those street fights.
  2. brclry is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    76

    Posted On:
    1/21/2012 6:11pm


     Style: JP Jeet June Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    JKD and Bareknuckle

    I guess im gonna get reamed but I gotta represent, especialy because the JKD I was taught is very heavy on western bareknuckle boxing.

    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    I know I'm gonna hate myself in the morning... But which source arts did Lee use that are "lost" and what, precisely, do you mean by "lost"?


    And since this is in the WMA forum, please try to link it back into the "Western" part of "Martial Arts."

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
    None at all, its modified fencing footwork, modified BKB, and modified Wing Chun. The only thing that could be considered from a lost art, is the chi sau, which is like the sensitivity when rolling in BJJ, if your teacher has crappy sensitivity then so will you. Bruce Lee was a little rich boy in Hong Kong, and his father paid for private lessons with Yip Man, so Bruce got really good chi sau built into his base, that most couldnt afford. This makes you an in-fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMAMickey View Post
    No.. I'm pretty sure I was told on here that Bruce lee studied the kicks of TKD.


    He studied boxing but they still couldn't make him punch right.

    He studied wrestling but im pretty sure I've never seen him use it.

    .. So er how did being provocative work out for ya?
    No kicks from TKD. Joon Rhea and Bruce trained while in Hong Kong, but Bruce was already developing his own kicking mechanics. All of the kicks in JKD have counterparts in other martial arts, but they are thrown very differently. Savate is the closest mechanicaly, but this is because the stances are similar, due to both Savate and JKD being heavily influenced by old school english fencing. There are no chambers in JKD kicking, as ther are in TKD and Savate.

    JKD is a striking art, there is no wrestling. The punches are the same as in western bareknuckle boxing, including palm down punches, they use the bottom three knuckles and aim out of the ring finger knuckle.


    I would consider it a western art, it was created in California, without the boxing and fencing influence (which are debatably the same influence since boxing was traditionaly taught by fencing instructors) it would be an overly simplified version of Wing Chun. Look for the Jerry Poteet lineage videos, and compare them to Carl Cestari's. Its similar stuff and has a lot to offer in terms of bareknuckle applications for anyone interested.
  3. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,765

    Posted On:
    1/21/2012 6:53pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by brclry View Post

    JKD is a striking art, there is no wrestling.
    Larry Hartsell might have taken issue with that ...

  4. brclry is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    76

    Posted On:
    1/21/2012 9:42pm


     Style: JP Jeet June Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Probably not, because he teaches the Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do Grappling Arts, not JKD. His system is his own combination of submission grappling, trapping, and striking, this is a key difference in that they grapple to submit, and JKD removes obstructions to strike. Im not trying to be controversial, theres a lot of misconception that leads to dismissive attitudes about JKD. Pertaining to the subject of this thread, JKD is a Bareknuckle fighting system, I think anyone interested in learning to punch someone into KO or submission should look into the trapping it is to punching, what a clinch is to knees.
  5. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,765

    Posted On:
    1/22/2012 7:36am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You said, "JKD is a striking art. There is no wrestling." For the record, when I studied with Larry Hartsell (about 25 years ago - he died in 2007), he categorically did describe his grappling method as his own specialization of JKD. Surely that is the whole point - that individual practitioners are supposed to apply JKD concepts to their own training, whether they tend towards striking, grappling or (preferably, I would have thought) a rational, pressure-tested combination of skills?
  6. brclry is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    76

    Posted On:
    1/22/2012 12:52pm


     Style: JP Jeet June Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    You said, "JKD is a striking art. There is no wrestling." For the record, when I studied with Larry Hartsell (about 25 years ago - he died in 2007), he categorically did describe his grappling method as his own specialization of JKD. Surely that is the whole point - that individual practitioners are supposed to apply JKD concepts to their own training, whether they tend towards striking, grappling or (preferably, I would have thought) a rational, pressure-tested combination of skills?
    Yeah that is definitly a concepts approach, I see no issue with that.Then there are those that train using the drills, techniques, and fight strategy that Bruce taught to his private students, and this was a purely striking art, it includes alll ranges, but from a strikers perspective..
  7. lklawson is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    964

    Posted On:
    1/23/2012 12:20pm


     Style: Bowie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by brclry View Post
    All of the kicks in JKD have counterparts in other martial arts, but they are thrown very differently. Savate is the closest mechanicaly, but this is because the stances are similar, due to both Savate and JKD being heavily influenced by old school english fencing.
    I'd be careful saying that to a Savateur. ;)

    FWIW, I don't think it's so, personally. It seems pretty clear that most la Canne hails from a Sabre lineage, though it is greatly evolved since then. I don't see la Savate's footwork looking a whole lot like any of the fencing, either classic or modern, that I've seen.


    JKD is a striking art, there is no wrestling.
    Guess it depends on your definition of "wrestling."

    I would consider it a western art, it was created in California,
    As mentioned before, there is more than a fair amount of debate surrounding whether or not a modern art is considered "Western" just because it was "created" in a western nation. I'll leave that to another thread.

    without the boxing and fencing influence (which are debatably the same influence since boxing was traditionaly taught by fencing instructors)
    That rather depends on time period. During the very, very early days of the Brougton rules, yes, maybe. However, there's little enough evidence that Mendoza or Humphries taught Fencing. And it gets more pronounced as we move forward into the London Prize Ring rules, which stylistically looks most similar to Wing Chun and JKD. In the LPR days, it was uncommon for boxing instructors to also be Fencing coaches. It was more common to mix Wrestling with Boxing than Fencing.

    It's kinda odd though because LPR looks a lot more like "Fencing with Fists" than Broughton stuff.

    So, while there is indeed compelling evidence that in the 18th Century, Boxing theory may have been tied closely to Fencing theory, by the beginning of the 19th Century it was increasingly uncommon for one man to teach both (I recall reading of a coach named Barrett - it's memorable because the name is the same as the rifle ;) ). By the 20th C.? Hmm... Allanson-Winn taught/practiced Broadsword & Singlestick along with Boxing & Wrestling. Hutton and Castle were obviously big into Fencing and important in the Manly Arts - shared space with the Bartitsu club.

    I just re-read my post and it's kinda rambling and a little hard to follow. Oh well, I blame Monday.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  8. brclry is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    76

    Posted On:
    1/23/2012 5:00pm


     Style: JP Jeet June Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd be careful saying that to a Savateur. ;)

    FWIW, I don't think it's so, personally. It seems pretty clear that most la Canne hails from a Sabre lineage, though it is greatly evolved since then. I don't see la Savate's footwork looking a whole lot like any of the fencing, either classic or modern, that I've seen.
    My exposure to fencing footwork is through JKD, but Savate seems to make heavy use of lead weapons, and a bladed stance, which would necessitate the use of fencing strategy when using straight attacks. JKD gets its basic footwork from fencing, if Savate doesnt, then it must be incorporating similar principles, as best as I can guess.

    I am not saying JKD is western because it was created in LA, but because the structure is influenced by western arts, before this influence it was not JKD, it was Jun Fan Gung Fu and definitly an eastern art, even though Jun Fan GF was also created in the U.S.

    Guess it depends on your definition of "wrestling."
    Great point, let me clarify, I define wrestling to be grappling with the intent to submit, or pin. Yes this definition is overly simple, but it makes the point that any maneuvering for position in JKD is for the purpose of striking, which fundamentaly changes the techniques.

    Im not realy concerned with the where the art comes from. Its worth a look from anyone interested in using their bare fists to pound someone.
Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ... 56789

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.