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  1. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2009 9:13pm

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

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  2. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2009 9:44pm

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     Style: white boy jiujitsu

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    I love you too, brother, I love you too.
  3. Earl Weiss is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2009 4:25pm


     Style: TKD & JJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soju_King View Post
    i was wondering, what are the peeps views on Sine wave? BS? i think its BS and some sort of psuedo fancy scientific name for hip snapping/ rhythym in the form.

    im looking for more insights from other people though
    The term "Sine Wave" is simply a metaphor to describe how the body moves up and down smoothly when the knees are flexed to generate power in hand techniques. It is meant to be descriptive and there is no actual use of physics terms along with it.

    It is descriptive just like "L Stance"
    or "W Shape Block" and "U shape Block" Those things look kind of like the letters used, but not exactly like the letters, especialy "U shape " which would be more like a "C" yet no one gets bent out of shape because the positions are not exact representations of the letter.

    The motion is contrasted to metaphors "Flat Wave" level headed motion, or saw tooth wave sharp jerky motion. The flat wave or level headed motion while stepping is what is often evident in soem Japanese patterns.

    Before the term appeared in 1983 people often used the term "Spring Style" . The issue of flexing the knees appeared in earlier texts.

    While use of the term "Sine Wave " is unique to General Choi, the concept of bending the knees to generate power in Hand techniques is not. Boxers do it. Bruce Lee references it in his Secret of the one and 2 inch punch. It is the same concept as "Closed Chain linking" and Kinetic Linking " Used in the XMA and Fight Science TV shows and which could be found on the web.

    Are certain exhibitions overdone? Yes. There are a couple of reasons for this. For some if General Choi said some is good, they figured more is better. This happened when he would talk about hip twist and then see people doing it and he would tell them it was too much.

    Another aspect is that many pattern motions are exagerated. Whether this is good or bad would fill many pages of debate. One use of exagerated motions for practice was highlighted (for me) at Peyton Quinn's RMCAT (Session taught by Bill Kipp) which adresses the adrenal stress effect making motions smaller and by practicing larger motions (Note that RMCAT has nothing to do with any martial art system) under adrenal stress those motions while reduced in size will still be large and powerful.

    Just my insight. Basicaly, that some get hung up on literal translations, and direct physics interpretations. AFAIAC that was not the intent.
  4. legomepanda is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2009 4:55pm


     Style: grappling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Weiss View Post
    One use of exagerated motions for practice was highlighted (for me) at Peyton Quinn's RMCAT (Session taught by Bill Kipp) which adresses the adrenal stress effect making motions smaller and by practicing larger motions (Note that RMCAT has nothing to do with any martial art system) under adrenal stress those motions while reduced in size will still be large and powerful.
    Oh i get it, like how when in boxing it gets really wild and they start throwing really tight compact hooks, because thats what happens when the adrenaline starts flowing.
  5. Earl Weiss is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/17/2009 7:14am


     Style: TKD & JJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by legomepanda View Post
    Oh i get it, like how when in boxing it gets really wild and they start throwing really tight compact hooks, because thats what happens when the adrenaline starts flowing.
    You can choose to accept the adrenal stress theory or not. However, do not confuse the sport environment with a real world attack situation. The adrenal stress levels are completely different. Whether or not the sport / competition trrained athlete will experience the same levels of adrenal stress as the non sport trained athlete depends on many factors difficult to measure and apply, some of which may have little or nothing to do with the sport training including how many real world confrontations they have been in.
  6. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/17/2009 7:51am


     Style: MMA, Yoga

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    I think you should go out and compete in a full contact sporting match before you get to lecture us with any more of your bullshit.
    "Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
    Kenny Weldon
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/17/2009 8:04am

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     Style: xingyi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Weiss View Post
    You can choose to accept the adrenal stress theory or not. However, do not confuse the sport environment with a real world attack situation. The adrenal stress levels are completely different. Whether or not the sport / competition trrained athlete will experience the same levels of adrenal stress as the non sport trained athlete depends on many factors difficult to measure and apply, some of which may have little or nothing to do with the sport training including how many real world confrontations they have been in.
    Come on you know this is bullshido stats please. Sources please.
  8. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/17/2009 9:09am

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     Style: white boy jiujitsu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Weiss View Post
    The term "Sine Wave" is simply a metaphor to describe how the body moves up and down smoothly when the knees are flexed to generate power in hand techniques.
    That's not how punching works. The force of a punch comes from the torquing of the torso about the hips and the extension of the arm. It does not come from an up and down motion of the knees. As a matter of fact, the two motions are in orthogonal planes of motion, and thus have no effect on each other's physical properties (see: vectors).

    The knees are kept bent by various martial artists because that allows for quicker footwork and movement, not for power generation. For that to be true, a fighter would need to stop, straighten their legs, then bend them again before delivering a strike. Precious milliseconds which means everything in a fight.
    Last edited by MaverickZ; 9/17/2009 9:19am at .
  9. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/17/2009 9:26am

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Weiss View Post
    The term "Sine Wave" is simply a metaphor to describe how the body moves up and down smoothly when the knees are flexed to generate power in hand techniques.


    While use of the term "Sine Wave " is unique to General Choi, the concept of bending the knees to generate power in Hand techniques is not. Boxers do it.
    You've never boxed, have you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Weiss View Post
    Bruce Lee references it in his Secret of the one and 2 inch punch. It is the same concept as "Closed Chain linking" and Kinetic Linking "
    Or trained in JKD.

    The One Inch Punch is the exact opposite of what General Choi was talking about.
  10. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/17/2009 9:32am

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     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ View Post
    That's not how punching works. The force of a punch comes from the torquing of the torso about the hips and the extension of the arm. It does not come from an up and down motion of the knees.
    True for hooks and straight punches. However uppercuts, shovel hooks and other similar shots are partly powered by straightening your legs.

    I'm just being pedantic and am aware that wasn't really the point.
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