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  1. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2009 5:02pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Conde Koma, you just keep putting your foot in your mouth over and over in this thread. When your list of unskilled fighters include two of the most dominant fighters in their time you really need to consider adjusting your definition.
  2. ArrogantBastard is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2009 5:10pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Conde Koma View Post
    Hang on, I never said that being a good in-fighter made him unskilled. Manny Pacquiao and Marvin Hagler are two excellent examples of people who can in-fight skillfully. I just don't think of Tyson's wins being because he was more technically skilled than his opponents.

    Possible parallel: Fedor (while being very skilled in judo and sambo) is not a very skilled striker, yet knocks people out because of his aggression and pressure. I know it's not a perfect example, but I think it fits, more or less.

    Also, agreed, he was fine socially up until Don King got his claws into him.

    Problem with your Fedor analogy is that the majority of his wins have come by submission (which are double the amount of KO's he has).
  3. Conde Koma is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/10/2009 6:13pm

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     Style: Judo,MT,Boxing,BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know he's skilled in submitting people, that's not the issue in question. He's not great at stand-up striking, but still knocks people out--this is the issue. Please read carefully, there are nuances about.
  4. johnevans is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2009 6:15pm


     Style: Bas Rutten tapes

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mike Tyson was powerful and aggressive AND a skilled boxer, thats why he was so dominant in the sport.
  5. ArrogantBastard is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2009 7:48pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Conde Koma View Post
    I know he's skilled in submitting people, that's not the issue in question. He's not great at stand-up striking, but still knocks people out--this is the issue. Please read carefully, there are nuances about.
    Your analogy is faulty because you are using Fedor as proof that aggression = knockouts when he has 7 KO's in 32 matches.

    Guess you didn't catch that nuance.
  6. Conde Koma is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/10/2009 7:52pm

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     Style: Judo,MT,Boxing,BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Regardless of the number, 7 out of 32 is still not a small percentage. 25% is well above the 5% chance deviation. If his knockouts were by chance, we might expect to see one or two, but seven? I think this supports my analogy.
  7. EmperorCesar is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/10/2009 7:57pm

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     Style: BJJ, MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Its obvious that Tyson is incredibly talented and skilled, so people should stop bringing that into question.
  8. ArrogantBastard is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2009 7:59pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Conde Koma View Post
    Regardless of the number, 7 out of 32 is still not a small percentage. 25% is well above the 5% chance deviation. If his knockouts were by chance, we might expect to see one or two, but seven? I think this supports my analogy.
    Your example is faulty because ~22% is low compared to fighters who are known for their KO ability. Compare this to Chuck Liddell at 50% and Rua at 71%.

    Also, I never said Fedor's KO's were by chance, so that standard deviation stuff doesn't really backup anything.
  9. Conde Koma is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/10/2009 8:06pm

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     Style: Judo,MT,Boxing,BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But it doesn't explain how Fedor gets KOs at all, when people with low striking ability should be expected to get 0-5% KOs, if only by chance.

    Therefore, if Fedor doesn't get KOs from luck, and he doesn't get them by skill, how does he get them? As I began with, I believe he gets them solely because of his aggression and power.
  10. ArrogantBastard is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2009 8:10pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Conde Koma View Post
    But it doesn't explain how Fedor gets KOs at all, when people with low striking ability should be expected to get 0-5% KOs, if only by chance.

    Therefore, if Fedor doesn't get KOs from luck, and he doesn't get them by skill, how does he get them? As I began with, I believe he gets them solely because of his aggression and power.
    No one in this thread said his striking ability was low.

    Therefore your application of statistics is again wrong.
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