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  1. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2009 10:23pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Knee armbar/hiza gatame/straight armlock

    I've been reading Jiu-Jitsu University and I came across some setups for the the knee-armbar/hiza-gatame, called the "straight armbar" in that book. Example are from an arm overwrap in closed guard and from a failed pass up the middle from butterfly. For those of you with the book: 15-2 (p. 101-102) and 17-15 (p.143).

    The kinds of techniques I'm talking about are in the first 30 seconds or so of this video.

    YouTube - Judo - Hizagatame

    Or everything except the bottom right one, below:




    This is not a technique I have ever used live and have only seen demoed once, a while ago. I drilled it a bit tonight after judo and it certainly seemed viable and relatively simple.

    A few questions:


    • Does anyone have much success with this on a regular basis (i.e. is it worth the drill time)? It's a rare technique at the places I've trained and don't recall having it done to me.
    • Best foot position (hip?)
    • Other setups?
    • Useful transitions from failed attempt? The most obvious I see are taking his back or returning to guard (depending on how far out you got), and the omoplata (demoed at 17-16). Belly-down armbar? Triangle?

    [Edit: there's a typo in the title. Should be "straight" armlock oops!]
    Last edited by jnp; 9/03/2009 10:28pm at . Reason: Fixed typo
  2. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/03/2009 11:08pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post


    • Does anyone have much success with this on a regular basis (i.e. is it worth the drill time)? It's a rare technique at the places I've trained and don't recall having it done to me.
    • Best foot position (hip?)
    • Other setups?
    • Useful transitions from failed attempt? The most obvious I see are taking his back or returning to guard (depending on how far out you got), and the omoplata (demoed at 17-16). Belly-down armbar? Triangle?
    I use the bottom left position to transition to the "belly down" armbar from guard, except that I utilize an underhook instead of an overhook. Also, my left leg is usually down and my right leg would be high up, threatening a triangle. The higher your opponent is in your guard, the stronger your set up for this move.

    Say my partner evades a triangle by shucking my 'across the neck' leg over his head and onto the same side as my other leg. In the bottom left illustration, it would be guard guy's right leg. Provided I have sufficient arm control with my two on one (cupping elbow, grabbing wrist), I'll immediately go for the "belly down" armbar by sticking the foot of my shucked leg into his near hip.

    By pushing on his hip with my foot while pulling on his arm with my hands, that hip becomes my leverage point to help me rotate my hips the 180 degrees necessary to get into proper position to finish the move while simultaneously aiding in stretching out his arm.
  3. chingythingy is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2009 1:27am


     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    A few questions:


    • Does anyone have much success with this on a regular basis (i.e. is it worth the drill time)? It's a rare technique at the places I've trained and don't recall having it done to me.
    • Best foot position (hip?)
    • Other setups?
    • Useful transitions from failed attempt? The most obvious I see are taking his back or returning to guard (depending on how far out you got), and the omoplata (demoed at 17-16). Belly-down armbar? Triangle?

    [Edit: there's a typo in the title. Should be "straight" armlock oops!]

    I'm starting to get these more consistently, mostly because one of our black belt instructors smokes everyone with this type of attack in combination with an americana from guard. I've seen him tap visiting purples within 4 seconds of starting a roll with this type of thing.

    Yes I feel drilling this is worth the time.

    Keys are:

    1) Can't be flat on back - on one side.
    2) Your elbow inside your knee.
    3) Isolate their arm - good grip on their elbow, either overhook or pin with elbow across center.
    4) Opposite foot on far hip
    5) You need to get them stretched out

    Yes if you have them stretched out there is a whole lot of other transitions to stuff if you don't have the right angle - foot over shoulder armbar, americana, omoplata, belly down armbar, take back, and hook flip the other way with a butterfly hook - you have their basing arm pinned, triangle if they go back into you.
  4. ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2009 8:47am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post

    Or everything except the bottom right one, below:




    This is not a technique I have ever used live and have only seen demoed once, a while ago. I drilled it a bit tonight after judo and it certainly seemed viable and relatively simple.
    I have a bit of a love affair with this technique as a way to transition to the belly down armbar, I transition to it off back mount and from guard, of the pictures the bottom left is closest to what I do, the bottom right leg goes on the opponents hip to stop him turning into me and the knee matches the position shown because when I do transition to belly down armbar the knee goes into the opponents face to force him to turn his head away from the armbar making it easy to forces him to roll forward if you want to finish from the standard position, the right leg goes shin across the legs to block the opponent coming forward.
  5. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2009 12:31pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've used it a lot in randori, but don't remember ever using it in a contest.

    Common transitionis to a face down Juji Gatame, Sankaku Garami, sometimes various reversals to a pin depending on how they react.
  6. M-Tri is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/09/2009 12:20pm

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     Style: Mixed Martial Arts

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, I use it all the time, and even when it doesn't get the finish any defense they do sets them up for another attack.
    FACT- Eddie Bravo invented the triangle choke when he used it to tap out helio gracie at an ac/dc concert.


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  7. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/09/2009 2:14pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    A few questions:


    • Does anyone have much success with this on a regular basis (i.e. is it worth the drill time)? It's a rare technique at the places I've trained and don't recall having it done to me.
    • Best foot position (hip?)
    • Other setups?
    • Useful transitions from failed attempt? The most obvious I see are taking his back or returning to guard (depending on how far out you got), and the omoplata (demoed at 17-16). Belly-down armbar? Triangle?
    [Edit: there's a typo in the title. Should be "straight" armlock oops!]
    My favourite armlock. Use it often and transition back and forth between juji gatame and hiza gatame, from the guard.

    I normally do the variation shown at 1.45 in the video, a point I find quite important is that you need to pull their arm taught and as far up your body as possible, also to achieve the submission I try to straighten out my leg thats over their arm, rather than pushing downwards. I find this results in a much stronger, more controlled and faster submission.
  8. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/15/2009 9:13pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

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    My favorite version is most like the bottom left one:



    ... except that I do it at closer range, trapping the target arm's wrist in the crook of my neck, my hands Gable'd behind his elbow, one foot on the far hip, the other bent, the knee pressing on top of the target arm's shoulder.

    (EDIT) Like this, but a little closer so the hand comes past the head:



    The setup that makes this possible is to unbalance the fellow (assuming he's in your guard) toward you in such a way that he tries to post a hand past the level of your head, then snatch the arm and turn your body in for the lock.

    From failure, depending how he defends: belly-down jujigatame, omoplata. I don't find it a great position from which to take the back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    Does anyone have much success with this on a regular basis (i.e. is it worth the drill time)?
    It works well enough for me that I've mostly stopped doing it to concentrate on other subs. One of our brown belts has tapped so many of us so many times with the version described above that we call the move by his name.
    Last edited by Jack Rusher; 9/15/2009 9:19pm at . Reason: Add helpful pic.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  9. Aaron Fields is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/17/2009 12:57am


     Style: Cambo/jujutsu/judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I use a number of variations with a lot of success. I think I have it filmed somewhere, I'll drop you my contact info and pass along what I can.

    Aaron Fields
  10. FLMikeATT is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2009 4:19pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not very good with that specific armbar...I like the reverse armbar much better, also called the telephone armbar and a few other names.

    I like to set it up from side control and knee on belly position. You start by isolating the far arm, and then you step up and optionally over their head and fall back for the finish. You can also do it straight from the guard if you can trap one of their arms.

    To finish it, you really have to make sure you trap his arm with your head really tight and make sure it's not going to slip out. Then there are a variety of grips you can use with your hands on his elbow joint to hyper extend the arm.

    Actually, you can kind of combine the knee armbar shown above and the reverse armbar, if you hip out enough and clamp your knees down on his shoulder while finishing like you would with the normal reverse armbar.
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