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  1. nitekatt2010 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/01/2009 11:21pm

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     Style: Kung Fu san soo

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    Recalling The Death of Bass Player Jaco Pastorius. Why? I dunno, but I mentioned MA

    Are there any musicians or funk/jazz fans that remember the late great bass player Jaco Pastorius? Anyway he died at a nightclub in Florida with a confrontation with the bouncer who was a karate expert.

    Here is a bit of the reference I found. Check it out if interested.

    Death

    After sneaking onstage at a Carlos Santana concert September 11, 1987, he was ejected from the premises, and he made his way to the Midnight Bottle Club in Wilton Manors, Florida.[23] After reportedly kicking in a glass door after being refused entrance to the club, he was engaged in a violent confrontation with the club bouncer, Luc Havan. Pastorius was hospitalized for multiple facial fractures and damage to his right eye and right arm, and had sustained irreversible brain damage.[citation needed] He fell into a coma and was put on life support.
    There were initially encouraging signs that he would come out of his coma and recover, but a massive brain hemorrhage a few days later pointed to brain death. His family decided on a majority vote to remove him from life support, even though his second wife Ingrid was against the decision.[citation needed] Pastorius died on September 21, 1987, aged 35, at Broward General Medical Center in Fort Lauderdale. His heart continued to beat for three hours after the life support machine was disconnected.[citation needed]
    In the wake of Pastorius' death, Havan, a karate expert, was charged with second degree murder, but later pled guilty to manslaughter, for which he served eight months[24]. Pastorius was buried at Our Lady Queen of Heaven Cemetery in North Lauderdale.[


    What is your opinion of the judge's sentence of Havan, the bouncer? Sometimes it seems that if you are trained in a MA style and reach a high level and use it in a confrontation, the judge might offer a harsh penalty, especially if death is involved.

    I remember in the film Conair, actor Nicholas Cage plays a special forces soldier who is out of the service and skilled in hand to hand combat. He and his wife are at a bar and as he is leaving, 3 dudes attack him, one pulls a knife on him. He fought the guys off, but kills the guy with the knife unarmed. The judge of course sentences ole Nick to the pen because he used his MA training to protect himself and kills the guy with the knife. It's Hollywood, but I felt the judge was wrong in his sentence. Ole Nick used what he had to protect himself, despite the fact he was a trained commando.

    I have heard stories of unarmed trained MA that have used their skills against armed attackers to survive and the judge sends the MA victim to jail for protecting himself. So you are damned if you do and damned if you don't/ What do you think?

    Thanks

    katt
  2. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/01/2009 11:27pm

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    wow, you went from Jaco-the almighty-to Con Air! like..h0ly ****.....
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
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  3. 1point2 is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/01/2009 11:27pm

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    Speak with a lawyer, please.

    The law is fairly reasonable once you understand how grown-ups operate outside of paranoid theory-based martial arts cults.

    I'll bite on your specific question. Did the judge sentence him to prison because he knew martial arts or because instead of bouncing the guy, he stomped his head in?
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  4. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/01/2009 11:28pm

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    Sorry, but your thread is just too stupid to be afforded the protection of Newbietown. It seems to be a fit for YMAS, though. Another mod might disagree and flush it down trollshido, however.

    Original title: "Recalling The Death of Bass Player Jaco Pastorius"


    ... also, 1point2, theotherserge: remember which forum you are in at all times.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

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  5. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/01/2009 11:28pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    Speak with a lawyer, please.

    The law is fairly reasonable once you understand how grown-ups operate outside of paranoid theory-based martial arts cults.
    I think we should both go to bed. Once we get wrapped up in this kind of crapfest, all best are off!
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  6. 1point2 is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/01/2009 11:35pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ now, judo/karate then

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan View Post
    ... also, 1point2, theotherserge: remember which forum you are in at all times.
    This seems like a common enough problem to warrant a flashing pink background in Newbietown, doncha think?
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  7. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/02/2009 12:45am

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    This seems like a common enough problem to warrant a flashing pink background in Newbietown, doncha think?
    I prefer to think you aren't quite that stupid, even if you are.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
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    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
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  8. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/02/2009 1:31am

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    Lurk more post less.
  9. blackxpress is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2009 11:25am


     Style: Kyokushin, Goshin-do

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    The best concert I ever saw was Weather Report (with Jaco) at a small venue in Orlando in 1977. Jaco stole the show. One of the most amazing musicians I've ever seen. His death was a tragic loss. As far as the case is concerned, it's hard to say whether the sentence was just. All we can do is speculate since we were not in the courtroom and did not hear the testimony. I do know this. Jaco was a BIG guy. From what I understand he also had bipolar disorder and an alcohol problem. He was out of control that night. The bounder was probably scared shitless. Whether or not his response was appropriate though is not for us to say. Apparently the judge and the jury decided he went way overboard.
  10. nitekatt2010 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2009 11:56am

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    Jaco

    Quote Originally Posted by blackxpress View Post
    The best concert I ever saw was Weather Report (with Jaco) at a small venue in Orlando in 1977. Jaco stole the show. One of the most amazing musicians I've ever seen. His death was a tragic loss. As far as the case is concerned, it's hard to say whether the sentence was just. All we can do is speculate since we were not in the courtroom and did not hear the testimony. I do know this. Jaco was a BIG guy. From what I understand he also had bipolar disorder and an alcohol problem. He was out of control that night. The bounder was probably scared shitless. Whether or not his response was appropriate though is not for us to say. Apparently the judge and the jury decided he went way overboard.
    I also saw Weather Report several times with the late great Jaco and his end was tragic. He battled mental illness issues, drugs, financial problems and it's so unfortunate. His memory lives though through the recordings he left behind for us fans to be inspired from

    katt

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