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  1. Feryk is offline

    Boneheaded Optimist

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    Sep 2004
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    Keep going North until I say stop
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    Posted On:
    9/04/2009 4:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: Wado Kai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by matrixdutch View Post
    Hi Dsimon338,

    Do you think it is alright to use a knife against a good grappler or multiple opponents if they are unarmed?
    1.) Run

    2.) Be aware enough not to put yourself in the situation in the first place.

    This should solve almost 100% of your problems.

    If both of those are beyond your abilities, then by all means whip out a knife. Just don't bitch when it's taken away from you.
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    i was once told that "do" means wrecking people's **** for your own philosophical betterment.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin_peebles
    I could be mistaking dumbness for delusion. I'll have to go dig out my DSM IV. It's great to have stumbled upon this site. The rich fauna and flora of mental dysfunction that exists in the martial arts is amazing. It's like the Galapagos.
  2. Ryno is offline

    Senior Member

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    Apr 2005
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    Seattle (Ballard), WA
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    1,776

    Posted On:
    9/04/2009 4:54pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tim_stl View Post
    be fair, now. some viable systems have more than just a takedown or two and a bit of rudimentary grappling.

    tim
    Some might. Most don't. Most of what i've seen in FMA with regards to grappling has been mediocre to poor technically. And on top of this, most FMA clubs focus on that portion of the curriculum so minimally that their execution of these techniques is worse.

    I'm sure that there are some exceptions to this broad generality.

    But generally when it comes to grappling, if they don't spar using grappling regularly, they won't be very good at it. It's just too much of a feel thing, and you can't become a good grappler solely with a compliant partner.

    I'd trained in FMA regularly for almost 15 year before I took up SAMBO. I thought that I knew a little something about grappling when I started. After all, both FMA systems that I studied had some grappling in them.

    It was a rather rude awakening. Maybe I had a slight clue due to my FMA and football background. But even that was questionable.
  3. tim_stl is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    157

    Posted On:
    9/04/2009 4:57pm


     Style: fma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno View Post
    Some might. Most don't. Most of what i've seen in FMA with regards to grappling has been mediocre to poor technically. And on top of this, most FMA clubs focus on that portion of the curriculum so minimally that their execution of these techniques is worse.

    I'm sure that there are some exceptions to this broad generality.

    But generally when it comes to grappling, if they don't spar using grappling regularly, they won't be very good at it. It's just too much of a feel thing, and you can't become a good grappler solely with a compliant partner.

    I'd trained in FMA regularly for almost 15 year before I took up SAMBO. I thought that I knew a little something about grappling when I started. After all, both FMA systems that I studied had some grappling in them.

    It was a rather rude awakening. Maybe I had a slight clue due to my FMA and football background. But even that was questionable.
    i don't disagree, i just wanted to point out that there are some some viable native wrestling styles from the philippines that are incorporated into some fma systems. your point is well made.

    tim
  4. Dsimon3387 is offline

    Senior Member

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    san francisco
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    3,079

    Posted On:
    9/04/2009 7:45pm

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by matrixdutch View Post
    Hi Dsimon338,

    Do you think it is alright to use a knife against a good grappler or multiple opponents if they are unarmed?
    I most certainly do... but your question raises a good point as this is indeed a personal decision. Let me put it this way. I teach all kinds of knife stuff where you can avoid killing and maiming, where you can ue teh knife like a small stick weapon and hit and (with a single edge) control and cut to non vital spots.... but if a group wants to jump on me and stomp the Iq out of me? they will be cut in so many places they won't know where to bleed first.
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
  5. Dsimon3387 is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    san francisco
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    3,079

    Posted On:
    9/04/2009 7:57pm

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Feryk View Post
    1.) Run

    2.) Be aware enough not to put yourself in the situation in the first place.

    This should solve almost 100% of your problems.

    If both of those are beyond your abilities, then by all means whip out a knife. Just don't bitch when it's taken away from you.
    I hope you are not making the argument I think you are making. I could be wriong and hope I am...

    To me there are two kinds of foolish positions to take on weapons:
    a) the weapon is so deadly that is absolutely cannot be neutralized.
    b) The weapon is not worth using because they will only escalate it and kill you and hurt you with the weapon.

    I won;t go into the many reasons these arguments are dumb I will go into why these arguments are constructed in the first place. It seems that many people choose to see martial arts as essentially involving two people in a ring. Let them a lot of great guys here focus on these skills and I certainly do not think less of them...

    But dammit that is not all martial arts are to everyone and as an FMA guy you might want to really think about these limitations.

    Study weapons properly and you can learn neat ways to meutralize them... like using a chopstick to equalize a decent knife attack , or using proper body mechanics to flank a knife man so one can run and or pick something up with some reach like a chait,etc.

    Now!! guess what? you can learn how to use that knife also and make a few blades quite the equalizer. No you don;t simply let them have the knife to chove up your ass, you sidestep and cut the throat and let the person's friend think twice before wanting the same.... you do this so fast to any group that they never attack anyone like that again and let you run away.

    Weapons are awesome. They allow one to do lots of neat **** in a self protection scenerio. They take a lot of time precision and skill and are worth devoting oneself too. I would love to see someone take a few of my blades off of me while they still had a major artery that was working in :violent1:their body.
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
  6. matrixdutch is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    49

    Posted On:
    9/08/2009 10:42am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Pekiti

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Dsimon3387,

    I guess I was wondering if it is necessary to pull a knife on a single person that is unarmed. I can agree that multiple opponents, a knife coull be used. But can this really be justified against one person? Isn't relying on the knife that much become like a crutch?

    I also think it's a great idea to "run" to a public place if possible against multiple opponents or if someone attempts an assault against one with a knife.

    The only time I can see standing one's ground and using a knife is if you are with close friends and family...then running cannot be an option as to leave them behind.
  7. Sun_Helmet is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    19

    Posted On:
    9/22/2009 3:10pm


     Style: Sayoc Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Sayoc Response

    Tatang Bo Sayoc passed away a few years ago. He is greatly missed. This clip merely refers to the beginnings of understanding the mapping of the human body. It is ***not*** considered the end point of empty hands training. Tatang Bo has also stated that what he taught and what is currently Sayoc at this time has evolved greatly.

    His touch point was what he taught prior to or in synch with basic stick training. It allowed the student to know where to hit the soft spots and where to break the bony parts. They get a rough idea of pain tolerance before the ***real*** pain of training sets in. :)

    Tatang Bo worked and retired as a Corrections Officer so many of the subtle control points were tactile cues to inmates to de-escalate a situation. So much of what he showed is based off what worked for him at work. He would be the first to show a grappling submission if required. His striking was truly unique in that it generated lots of power without much windup, it came from a blade perspective.

    If you look on the legacy thread of the Sayoc site, you can see Tatang Bo training grappling/wrestling in his early twenties.

    As for FMA grappling, the Sayoc perspective may be different... it is all about evolving -- to investigate and train all aspects and cultures of grappling. Thus, we have many instructors fully versed in BJJ, Western wrestling, and other Eastern based grappling arts.

    As for Sayoc establishing a radio network, well, as many know-- Sayoc is based in the NE... in the bigger cities. I and many of our fellow students and instructors were there in NYC during 911 when communications went down. It is just an extra tool to help during a time of emergency. Many others were based in Florida during the hurricanes of a few years back. Growing and learning from that is part of martial arts in our POV. It is actually a real world skill set that can and has come in handy... maybe more so than knife "fighting".

    --Rafael--
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