to ATAMANN

[wishiwasthatcool]

ATAMAN


The ATA is in there own league:
1. They have under six year old 2-3rd degree black belts –the champ -IAN MASHBURN—and yes I took his name from your site under that heading—so do tell they don’t have that ****!
2. Most people make BB in 14 –18 months of ATA training
3. Your BB test consists of a form, board break and couple rounds of tag sparring. Total time for a BB test 5 –9 minutes! Even at a national testing for higher rank—same ****!
4. They start kids as young as 6 teaching calling them leadership something or other?????????

And to top it all off---------everything cost big bucks. I went to the MAIA event in Vegas last year and heard Bill “Balls” Clark (he called himself that, I’m not digging him) big ATA grandmaster. He stated that he got a student in and basically bate and switched them until they were paying his 10 – 15K for his black belt program or master program. He justified by saying that a private school or country club cost that and he was worth it---maybe—but he laughed and bragged about the money he and the ATA squeezed out of people.

I knew little about the ATA before then. After hearing “Balls” talk, it blew me away (not in the literal sense--lol). I investigated a little more and it has made me sick! ATA and all of their underlings are money grubbing MCDOJO’s!

SO ATAMAN write your article ---but I know-------------you super-sized you black belt---“possible today and tomorrow”—show me the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, is a better rallying cry!

[ATAMAN]

read my other post. i know the head of tournaments personally and will be talking to him and the heead of instruction. i am personally up in arms abou tthe whole thing. and I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE. if i have to i will get a petition made.

Today impossible, Tomarrow Possible
Grand Master H.U. Lee

[jayp1940]

Cool I am in the ATA and I have never met Bill Clark but he looks sneaky. My 4th degree even agrees see ATAMAN our organization is becoming a joke slowly for surely. these guys have good points and soon the ATA will only have kids to teach i'm about ready to jump ship

[ATAMAN]

i understand you rpost however the first degree test doesent just consist of a form sparring and board break it also has elements from the other lower ranks. you must perform two other lower rank forms at the judges discretion. black belt in 14 to 18 months? i am not sure where you got your information but whom ever gave it to you is mistaken. it usually takes approximately 24 to 28 months given you whole step each time you test. kids as young as six do not start teaching they can only join the junior leadershp program wich means tha tthey get leadership concepts formally taught to them.

jayp1940
why dont you help try and change some of theese things then. why just jump ship dony you have any loyalty to this organization. i understand your point and agree that six yearolds shoulnt be allowed to be black belts but that doesent mean that i am just jumping ship. whrite a letter in fact get someof your fellow students to write letters. there is power in the pen. if we are "customers" as some call us then we should have some say in it.

Today impossible, Tomarrow Possible
Grand Master H.U. Lee

[jaysen]

"The ATA is in there own league:
1. They have under six year old 2-3rd degree black belts –the champ -IAN MASHBURN—and yes I took his name from your site under that heading—so do tell they don’t have that ****!
2. Most people make BB in 14 –18 months of ATA training
3. Your BB test consists of a form, board break and couple rounds of tag sparring. Total time for a BB test 5 –9 minutes! Even at a national testing for higher rank—same ****!
4. They start kids as young as 6 teaching calling them leadership something or other?????????"

1. they only have a handful of six year old second and third degrees. Why? Because only a couple of idiot instructors will promote them to that rank. A couple out of thousands. That should tell you where our beliefs lie.
2. Ive NEVER heard of anybody making BB in 14 months of training. We test evey two months, and have 9 colored belts, and 1 black belt midterm rank. You stay for 4 months at 3 belts;brown,red and rec.black. Those three ranks in themselves are a year in length. Also, most people dont go through the system unscathed. Most either fail a testing (which is common), or are not ready in time, forget their past material etc. I would say the average time for a BB is 2 1/2 to 3 years. However, I did not get my black belt for 10 years, because I started in Shotokan at 6, then moved to ATA at 13.
3. The testing takes as long as your instructor wants to make it. You have to do forms, many of them usually-sparring at least 2 rounds and one match with a higher rank. (you never only do two rounds- and they dont "tap" you at testing for BB. You get drilled by higher ranks. I was at a testing last week and a guy going for BB got his nose bleeding. No compassion from anybody. Its not "tap" believe me.) You board break. what else would you like- multiple attacker sparring? or maby mortal combat? I dont understand .
4. junior leaders are rarely 6. Again refer to #1.
Mostly their between 8-16, and they DO NOT TEACH.
They assist an instructor, under the direct supervision of that instructor.

Hope this helps clear some issues up.

[Greese]

Wow. A bloody nose.
That is why TKD gets so little respect. The test you described sounds like a breeze. My Orange Belt test for Judo and JJ was 10 times that.
Had to demonstrate 25 throws, 8 ground arm bars, 8 chokes, 4 leg locks. Then I had to do two of the Katas. Then, I had to do multiple rounds of randori against one of the best in the state.
And that is for orange belt.
TKD needs to kick it up a lot.

[wishiwasthatcool]

Oh stop you’re killin me! Two lower rank forms from the lower ranks-man that shows skill—LOL! And I’m sorry-you’re so right there is a huge difference between 24 months and 18 months for BB. I won’t over generalize, but most ATA BBs couldn’t kick there way out of a wet paper bag!

Most ATAers that have seen the light-------have left! Just recently Master Tammy Harvey Lamberson even figured it out! It’s my understanding that there is a long list of have beens. The Korean’s in the late 70’s, a big group in the early 80’s and then the early 90’s and why-----------because of crap like this!

The last big group that left formed the International Taekwondo Council. At least they cross train and have had fighters in the mixed martial arts NHB.

Well ATAMAN stay true, the next group will leave, making way for power/money hungry 3rd and 4th degrees to take the helm and move the ATA to “where no one has gone before”—since you like quotes!

[elipson]

ATAMAN you guys gotta mutiny or somethin!!

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"
-Ghandi

[jaysen]

gresse1- yeah, wow a bloddy nose. I wish it was broken instead. Or maby a broken leg would prove to be "hard" enough? And your test? 25 moves (arm bars, throws etc.) and 2 forms? And sparring? sound like its a lot harder to me....not really.

wish I was- 24 months? I said 2 1/2 years. thats 30 and thats the least. And your right you shouldnt overgeneralize.

Ive been ti ITC tournaments, and the competition in ata is much higher. Itc crosstrains? so does ATA, they have a program for groundfighting(with many levels) kickboxing,and many others. You didnt know that?

But who cares right? A black belty test should be like a mortal combat video game, with pebble floors and multiple weapons. Yeah right...thats why the ATA is so successful, it appeals to the masses not just the ignorant. Frankly, I like to train with somebody who has respect for their art as well as tring to be the best they can be. I see your complaints, they are not in all ATA schools however, so dont generalize.

[jaysen]

the hardcore doesnt appeal to them because they have jobs they have to go to a 9am, and dont want to look like they are part of a fight club. Martial arts is for the masses...everybody can benefit...not just the best.