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  1. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2009 10:25am


     Style: Bowie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwan_dao View Post
    lklawson just made an attempt to provide some information that he thinks might change my views on the matter. I will definitly try to find that deer video he is talking about.
    I can't verify from this location but my smartphone says this is the one that I'm talking about:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v4j3mvrDyQ

    You issued a challenge and had the bad luck to be called on your bluff. Now you expect me to travel several hundred kilometers, within three days notice. You even have the guts to call that "willing to compromise". That is ridiculous. The only aim for such unreasonable behaviour can be that you try to prevent me from actually calling you out on your challenge. In other words, you are "dicktucking".
    I've been familiar with "PolarBear" from a different forum for a year or two now. He's based in Britain and has, during that time, always been willing to cross (long)swords with anyone who wants to find him (Glasgow, IMS). He has long been "vocal" in his complaints of Longsword advocates not sparring with "intent" and generally being wusses when it comes to actual bouting.

    I rather doubt that Bear is "dicktucking" but, more likely, is looking for a way to try to accommodate a meeting without having to sell his children to the gypsies to finance it.


    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  2. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2009 10:31am


     Style: Bowie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimnir69 View Post
    And once again, if you want to get a grasp of Hema. Try it with someone really good.
    Part of the issue here is just that: "Try it with [fill in the blank/some mystic representative] to REALLY get your butt kicked."

    I remember the TMA vs. MMA "debates" that lasted through the '90s. They always were rather predictable. MMA guys bash TMA and cite a match where their favorite MMA guy beats the crap out of some random TMA guy. TMA guys respond with "Yeah, well, he's not 'really good' you should try that crap on Grandmaster Sifu Exalted [fill in the blank] and get your butt handed to you!"

    What folks want is repeatable, verifiable results. You should be able to point to 5 or 10 "really good" folks as representative. Just be careful that you don't make it sound like you're signing someone else up for a fight. That has its own negative history.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  3. Polar Bear is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2009 10:37am


     Style: WMA - German Longsword

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwan_dao View Post
    You issued a challenge and had the bad luck to be called on your bluff. Now you expect me to travel several hundred kilometers, within three days notice. You even have the guts to call that "willing to compromise". That is ridiculous. The only aim for such unreasonable behaviour can be that you try to prevent me from actually calling you out on your challenge. In other words, you are "dicktucking".
    I am in Milan on Monday, if that helps. Gives you extra time and takes off some of your "excessive" distance.
    Where in Austria are you?
  4. kwan_dao is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2009 10:39am


     Style: sambo, stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    I rather doubt that Bear is "dicktucking" but, more likely, is looking for a way to try to accommodate a meeting without having to sell his children to the gypsies to finance it.
    Given, and I can fully understand that. But on the other hand, the rules on Bullshido are clear and he should have taken them into acount beforehand.

    I guess it is reasonable, that I would not like to sell my family as well. The Turino thing was just a bit much. Thats freaking 1.037 Kilometers from me. With three days notice.

    I am willing to settle this on the basis that if I manage to visit Glasgow within the next two years (I would like to visit the region anyhow one day) he owes me a sparring match and a beer. I promise to order my beer at least two months in advance. :lookround

    Edit: Just saw your post polar_bear. I am near Vienna.
    Last edited by kwan_dao; 9/02/2009 10:49am at .
  5. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2009 10:42am


     Style: Bowie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwan_dao View Post
    True. We are actually not too far apart. I just think that the number of samples is too low. Which is a common point of critique with many studies.
    Fair enough.

    Have such measures been used to establish the cutting abilities of medieval weapons (e.g. not made from modern steel) under a fighting scenario (e.g. not swinging at the target like a hammer-thrower)? I honestly do not know and would be interested in any available information.
    There have been very few Museums willing to put antiques to demonstrations which could potentially damage their pieces. The Tower of London has allowed a (very) few, ims.

    Modern reproductions are usually what is used. And you are correct in believing that the quality of the modern steel is often far above "average" for the historic examples and frequently at a par or slightly exceeding what would have been available only to nobles. This is a well known, and endlessly debated, ad nauseum, point in the WMA/HEMA community encompassing subtleties such as handling characteristics, point of balance, point of percussion, and a bunch of other crap. The upshot of it is that until we get Star Trek's "replicators" we're generally going to have to use reproductions and assume that steel is steel for the most part.

    My experience is that even "lower quality" steel will perform the same techniques in the same way; the difference being in durability. Crap steels will dull sooner and break or bend more often and earlier in their life.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  6. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2009 10:48am


     Style: Bowie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwan_dao View Post
    the rules on Bullshido are clear
    There are RULES here?

    <BOGGLE>

    ;)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  7. kwan_dao is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2009 10:58am


     Style: sambo, stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    The upshot of it is that until we get Star Trek's "replicators" we're generally going to have to use reproductions and assume that steel is steel for the most part.

    My experience is that even "lower quality" steel will perform the same techniques in the same way; the difference being in durability. Crap steels will dull sooner and break or bend more often and earlier in their life.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
    Hm... intriguing. I think it would be possible to construct a "Rennofen" and acquire some iron-ore from a historically available source (iron mountain in styria comes to mind).

    What I would miss atm would be a water driven mill with horse-head hammers to refine the cast iron. Maybe one of the european open-air museums might be interested in building a working replica? Or even has one? I will definitly keep that idea in the back of my mind.
  8. Polar Bear is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2009 11:00am


     Style: WMA - German Longsword

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwan_dao View Post
    Given, and I can fully understand that. But on the other hand, the rules on Bullshido are clear and he should have taken them into acount beforehand.

    I guess it is reasonable, that I would not like to sell my family as well. The Turino thing was just a bit much. Thats freaking 1.037 Kilometers from me. With three days notice.

    I am willing to settle this on the basis that if I manage to visit Glasgow within the next two years (I would like to visit the region anyhow one day) he owes me a sparring match and a beer. I promise to order my beer at least two months in advance. :lookround

    Edit: Just saw your post polar_bear. I am near Vienna.
    Agreed, I will go further. I will give you a good meal, many beers and a tour of my country for standing in front of me with a sword. Two months notice is not necessary, I fight every week so I am always ready and need no preparation. 1 week notice will surfice.
    If I am heading to Vienna I will let you know.
  9. Grimnir69 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2009 11:06am


     Style: HEMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    Part of the issue here is just that: "Try it with [fill in the blank/some mystic representative] to REALLY get your butt kicked."

    I remember the TMA vs. MMA "debates" that lasted through the '90s. They always were rather predictable. MMA guys bash TMA and cite a match where their favorite MMA guy beats the crap out of some random TMA guy. TMA guys respond with "Yeah, well, he's not 'really good' you should try that crap on Grandmaster Sifu Exalted [fill in the blank] and get your butt handed to you!"

    What folks want is repeatable, verifiable results. You should be able to point to 5 or 10 "really good" folks as representative. Just be careful that you don't make it sound like you're signing someone else up for a fight. That has its own negative history.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
    I completely agree and your last line about signing up someone else is exactly why I am not mentioning other fighters I think are good. I'll let people sign up for themselves.

    There are about 13 Austrian Hema groups though, of which five reside in Vienna. Some of the Austrian groups are quite well-known, although I personally don't know any of the Austrian practitioners.

    Duels between disciplines (if that is what this is) tell very little of their respective value, which I have been trying to get at earlier, but I do think it would be an interesting personal experience for both parties. I have seen enough crap videos of katana vs longsword though...
    Last edited by Grimnir69; 9/02/2009 11:45am at .
  10. kwan_dao is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2009 11:17am


     Style: sambo, stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post
    Agreed, I will go further. I will give you a good meal, many beers and a tour of my country for standing in front of me with a sword. Two months notice is not necessary, I fight every week so I am always ready and need no preparation. 1 week notice will surfice.
    If I am heading to Vienna I will let you know.
    Deal then.

    If you come to vienna, I won´t fall back behind and show you around just as well. I will need a bit of a headstart though. Not only because of a tight schedule, but also because I do not regularly train for this kind of event. I admit, if I get no time for preparation, our match might end up horrendously one-sided.
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