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  1. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/24/2009 9:40am

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Rapier fencing techniques

    YouTube - Salvator Fabris

    We haven't had much discussion about rapier on this board yet. This video is a good formal demo. of some of Salvator Fabris' dueling techniques; see http://www.salvatorfabris.com/SalvatorFabris.shtml for all things Fabris.

    For similar skills applied in free-fencing, see YouTube - DREYNEVENT 2009 Rapier Dagger NICK vs. FLEISCH Capo Ferro vs. Fabris
  2. spidersfrommars is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2009 5:39pm


     Style: kyokushin

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    Very cool, always get a kick out of seeing people use the old style circular movements, so different from the much more linear Olympic style stuff I used to do. Sparring video was fun too but the guy on the left seemed to immediately loose his footwork every time he went for an attack.
  3. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2009 5:55pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by spidersfrommars View Post
    Very cool, always get a kick out of seeing people use the old style circular movements, so different from the much more linear Olympic style stuff I used to do.
    Minus the sylisation and off-hand weapon it looks a lot like modern epee fencing (and the way I used to do foil, lots of binds and angulation).
    Quote Originally Posted by spidersfrommars View Post
    Sparring video was fun too but the guy on the left seemed to immediately loose his footwork every time he went for an attack.
    I thought they looked a lot better than most WMA fencing I've seen, but there was quite a lot of being off-balance after the attack.
  4. spidersfrommars is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2009 6:20pm


     Style: kyokushin

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    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    Minus the sylisation and off-hand weapon it looks a lot like modern epee fencing (and the way I used to do foil, lots of binds and angulation).
    The demo or the sparring?

    I never really used those sort of angling movements, well not for more than a split second during a parry anyway or if I wound up in way too close for some reason. Was always more of a beat and feint kind of guy. But I was never very good so I suppose my experience may not be the best to go buy :)
  5. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/24/2009 6:24pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by spidersfrommars View Post
    The demo or the sparring?
    Both really.
  6. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/25/2009 4:08am

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    Quote Originally Posted by spidersfrommars View Post
    I never really used those sort of angling movements, well not for more than a split second during a parry anyway or if I wound up in way too close for some reason. Was always more of a beat and feint kind of guy.
    You only did foil, I guess? Beat-attack kind of relies on the right-of-way rules/your opponent's instinct for self preservation (which the rules are meant to simulate). In epee I can just stick my arm out as soon as I feel your beat and we'll probably get a double hit. Even in foil I found it safer to hit with a bind and not risk my point on the intelligence of the president.

    By 'too close' I guess you mean with your opponent inside your point? It really depends on distance control, if you pro-actively crash the measure (preferably on your opponent's preparation) you can position yourself so he has that problem but you don't. If you're just ending up point-blank at random moments because your distance control sucks then you'll be no more forewarned than your opponent and you'll likely be no better off than him.
    Quote Originally Posted by spidersfrommars View Post
    But I was never very good so I suppose my experience may not be the best to go buy :)
    Me neither. I was around a lot of people who were, though.
    Last edited by PointyShinyBurn; 8/25/2009 4:20am at .
  7. spidersfrommars is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/25/2009 5:23am


     Style: kyokushin

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    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    You only did foil, I guess? Beat-attack kind of relies on the right-of-way rules/your opponent's instinct for self preservation (which the rules are meant to simulate). In epee I can just stick my arm out as soon as I feel your beat and we'll probably get a double hit. Even in foil I found it safer to hit with a bind and not risk my point on the intelligence of the president.
    Yea, goofed about with epee a bit only ever competed in foil. I did tend to rely on quickly establishing ROW then going for it, without paying all that much attention to the other guys point. Worked ok under that rule set, awful idea for WMA stuff, as I found out when I had a chance to start messing around with some reenactment fencing guys.

    By 'too close' I guess you mean with your opponent inside your point?
    yep

    IIf you're just ending up point-blank at random moments because your distance control sucks then you'll be no more forewarned than your opponent and you'll likely be no better off than him.
    Yea and my distance control sucked quite substantially. If I was attacking of more of a step then a full lunge and missed (or the darn button thing on the tip didn't press in for one reason or another) I would often end up sort of tangled up with my opponent and suddenly on the wrong side of the ROW that's when I found binding up their blade and pushing it off to line to be useful, to try and stop them getting off a quick ripost (spelling) as I backed up. Mind you I was rarely successful and generally just got hit.
  8. willaume is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2009 5:19am


     Style: aikido, medieval fencing

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    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    Minus the sylisation and off-hand weapon it looks a lot like modern epee fencing (and the way I used to do foil, lots of binds and angulation).
    I thought they looked a lot better than most WMA fencing I've seen, but there was quite a lot of being off-balance after the attack.
    Hello
    About the footwork/balance, I have the suspicion that it could be a "film the demo" problem.

    If you look at the technique in 1:12 and 2:19:
    The good guy (winner) does not the same way as in the drawings.
    I.e. he move s his back leg forward and the drawing suggest moving the front leg back. In the drawing even you are protect by the void in the very likely event that the thrust is not going to be an instant debilitation/kill
    But to get the whole action in the field and in a way that shows the action is quite tricky and most of the time you get things a tad wrong.
    I though it looked fine, with due amount of Fabris arse sticking

    phil
  9. johnevans is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2009 2:43pm


     Style: Bas Rutten tapes

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    So, does that sparring video actually speak to the relative effectiveness of Capo Ferro when compared to Fabris, or is the guy on the left just way better?
  10. willaume is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2009 6:02am


     Style: aikido, medieval fencing

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnevans View Post
    So, does that sparring video actually speak to the relative effectiveness of Capo Ferro when compared to Fabris, or is the guy on the left just way better?
    Well mate
    Like all sparing it just tells that at that moment in time the CF guy had the upper hand on the Fabris guy. Now as the text of the vid says the Fabris guy said that the CF guy was all over him.

    In the HEMA world, most of us if not all are Sunday warriors really.
    So most of the sparing will reflect our inability to deal with something we are not used to. (And really that is one of the best benefits of sparing and filming it.)

    I know it is easier said than done, and I am guilty of not doing it enough myself, but there is a variable distance component to HEMA. If you look at that vid, it is always the same approach to take the measure, so the fight is moving around but it is still linear and a fixed distance, entering by the middle.
    That gives a very consitant entering platform/pattern and the CF guy was very comfortable with that very iteration, more that the Fabris guy

    I have to say that it is really easy to sat that from my armchair; I am not near that observant and analytical when I spare.
    phil
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