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  1. searcher66071 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2009 2:12pm


     Style: Karate-knockdown, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysol View Post
    ^ I'm assuming the same thing Bullshido did with Ashida Kim: Try to be somewhat neutral until they prove beyond a doubt that they're a diploma mill. Contact them about getting sokeship in a completely idiotic martial art that any non-diploma mill would pick up on and refuse to grant a certificate to (Maori Fencing is my idea, because anyone who has even watched Spike TV recently can tell you that the Maori didn't use steel weapons). When they ask for payment, tell them they've been nailed and then link to the thread. Good idea or no?

    Sounds like a plan. I will try to formulate a style and prepare to contact them.
  2. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2009 5:25pm


     Style: FMA & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Probably also important to treat the attainment of a fake Soke certificate and a fraudulent PHD differently through this process...
  3. Lysol is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2009 7:50pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinch2 View Post
    Probably also important to treat the attainment of a fake Soke certificate and a fraudulent PHD differently through this process...
    Okay, I'll test the Soke certificate with this email, full of so many red flags that the only person who would award me sokeship would have to

    A.) Be giving out certificates that they have no knowledge in and no right to give out
    B.) Simply not care that my story is blatant **** as long as I pay
    or
    C.) Both A and B

    All red flags will be flanked with "**" and explained. Not that I think Bullshido members need them explained, but the average person who knows nothing of martial arts who checks this thread before joining someone's school might need them explained.

    Quote Originally Posted by Email I plan on sending
    To Whom this may Concern:

    Please send me a Head of Family Sokeship Certificate in **“Rorirorichi”**, a system I developed which combines unarmed tactics with Maori weapons training. My qualifications are as follows: I spent **three years** **living and training with the Maori tribe in New Zealand**. My **sword fighting, as well as other Maori weapon** skills were perfected under them during this time. As for my unarmed tactics training, I am a **black belt in Savate** under **Remy Lebeau** of the **Académie de Savate Ratafia** (issued in 2004, acknowledged by the **Fédération Internationale de Savate**). That is how I perfected my striking and **takedowns**.

    My address is:

    **I'm sending a fake address because I have no intention on buying a certificate. This is only to see if they are willing to sell me one**

    Any further information, please ask.


    Now, on to the red flags, in order:

    - "Rorirorichi" is a very catchy sounding word, but what does it mean? Admittingly, I am no expert on Maori language, but a Maori dictionary I found online says "Rorirori" is an acceptable word to use to mean "crazy". And "Chi" I copied to use as in "Tai Chi". Aside from the fact that for whatever reason I found it necessary to combine a Maori word with a Chinese word, "Crazy Chi" should set off a red flag to someone who was considering making this art legit.

    - Three years is half of the MINIMUM time it takes to earn a black belt in a legitimate martial art. There's no way one who follows martial arts should think that three years of training makes someone an expert who is qualified to develop their own art based on the art that that person has "mastered".

    - The Maori are VERY passionate about keeping their culture within their tribe. To give you an idea of how passionate they are about this, the Maori have a council dedicated to the way that outsiders portray them, as well as a council that deals with non-Maori with Maori tattoos. Hell, some of you may remember the outburst the Maori made over Mike Tyson's Maori face tattoo. Anyways, while the Maori would be open to demonstrating a few techniques, the notion that they would allow an outsider to live amongst them and learn their fighting tactics is downright crazy.

    - I know I just mentioned this in a previous post (Page one of this topic), but the Maori did not use swords.


    - Savate is a French word litterally meaning "old shoe", but is the word most commonly used for "boxe française" (French Boxing). It is essentially kickboxing with shoes. Much like kickboxing, there is NO belt system.

    To make matters even worse, Savate DOES have a ranking system. Rank is displayed by badges with colored gloves on them (Or, in contests, simply the color of the competitor's gloves). The lowest rank, designated for beginners who are not ready to compete, is "colorless", where the practitioner has no badge and practices with either white or black gloves. In other words, it's even worse if they interpret "black belt" to mean "black gloves" and STILL "legitimize" my system.

    - Comic book geeks may recognize this person as "Gambit" (Yes, of X-Men)

    - A very French sounding name, but Ratafia is a French liqueur.

    - Fédération Internationale de Savate is a fight league, not a governing body. This is essentially akin to saying "Dana White thinks I gots skillz!"

    - Takedowns are illegal in Savate.

    __________________________________________________ ______

    Anyways, is this letter too blatant, or is it fine? I made it so obvious because I figured we might as well test for the worst possible form of fraud first, then test for more subtle degrees of it. What are your thoughts?
  4. u1ysses is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2009 8:46pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't have a lot of time at the moment, but I think this might be making it a bit too easy for them to discount it. I was thinking of doing something similar myself, but not that over the top. It may be worthwhile to just claim several years of a discipline they've awarded rank in before (ie jujitsu) and see what proof they require to advance you in rank farther.

    Also: don't just ask for a certificate to be sent outright - ask what their process of certification is, because you're interested in it and the instructor who was advancing you before is no longer available *tear* - you might even word it as " Is anyone at your organization qualified to evaluate me for rank in XX?"
    Last edited by u1ysses; 8/24/2009 8:52pm at .
  5. Lysol is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2009 9:11pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by u1ysses View Post
    I don't have a lot of time at the moment, but I think this might be making it a bit too easy for them to discount it. I was thinking of doing something similar myself, but not that over the top. It may be worthwhile to just claim several years of a discipline they've awarded rank in before (ie jujitsu) and see what proof they require to advance you in rank farther.

    Also: don't just ask for a certificate to be sent outright - ask what their process of certification is, because you're interested in it and the instructor who was advancing you before is no longer available *tear* - you might even word it as " Is anyone at your organization qualified to evaluate me for rank in XX?"
    True, but since they claim to legitimize new martial arts, let's see if they legitimize a new martial art.

    I'm keeping the premise of "I trained with Maori, let me combine it with my Savate and call it _______", but I will tone it down by a lot. Also, it is a good idea to get, in writing, what proof they require. However, let me remind you that Ashida Kim claimed to require a video to be evaluated, yet awarded certificates to people who provided no video.

    I'll work on a new copy tomorrow, then post it here for further critique. Thanks.
  6. u1ysses is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2009 10:10pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Be careful, though, w/r/t the accusations being made of this place. I doubt they'd give just anyone rank in anything - it seems to follow a set formula: someone w/ mediocre rank in a generic crapp style starts getting specialized grandmaster ranks after probably filling out mail correspondence multiple choice and sending reviews. I doubt you can demand they certify you im something without you sending a request as to cost and requirements - as you would a normal business or school inquiry.
  7. Lysol is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/25/2009 11:27am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sent the following email today:

    Quote Originally Posted by u1ysses View Post
    To Whom this may Concern:
    I have developed my own martial arts sytle based on my experience in Savate and Wrestling (Red Glove rank in Savate, four years wrestling with La Salle University). I see that your organization grants sokeship. What is the process that your company follows to grant a person sokeship?
    Sincerely,
    **Name Withheld**
    Let's see how they respond.
  8. u1ysses is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/25/2009 8:29pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, that should work as a general inquiry for starters.
  9. Martial Arts 50 is offline

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    Nov 2010
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    Posted On:
    11/27/2010 1:55pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Korean Tang Soo Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    website is eusaimaa.com

    I have been a Martial Artist practicing for almost 50 years. I have seen it all. I want to comment on this thread and try to give some insight on this organization. The EUSAIMAA suffers from a lack of internet and cyber savy. But dispite this, association 3,000 members strong. They suffer from an inability to defend themselves because the computer has only lately been used a device to label newsletters. However, the streams of criticisms have not been fair and they are seriously misunderstood. This association polices for fraud and ejects anyone who misrepresents themselves. Members are invited through sponsors only so that just "anyone" can not join, however, most states have a representative that can be contacted for sponsorship. The of Fame is misleading in that they are honoring members within the association. It is not represented as "The" Hall of Fame. The association has a conference that is held in Pittsburgh over a weekend in November that draws about 2,000 participants from across the country and from about 30 countries. This year I met a delegation from Iceland representing the Martial Art of "Gleema" The Phd thing is also a title totally within the association. Anyone who uses a Phd title that doesn't earn one from an accredited program should be ashamed. Within the association, a complete "Thesis" is required, and only a very small percentage of the applicants actually receive the association "professor" status. Many prominent educators, and military persononnel are members along with many legendary Martial Artists. The association strives to recognize Martial Artists who dedicate themselves to their art and to foster fellowship with other Martial Artists. It is not policial, It is not Style selective, It is not impossible to join, and it is not above criticism However, before you criticise this group of Martial Artists. Look at the website and contact the Director and find out the true mission and what its all about. This organization is about as professional as it gets and I've seen them all. I just attend the event, am a member and know what its all about. I am not commenting as its promoter or its board of directors.:deadhorse
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