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  1. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/11/2009 4:56pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Low Per now High Per

    So to briefly step away from my normal roll of inane complaining I'd like to propose a thread topic that should be of use to all readers. This is in part because as someone else mentioned there is a general dearth of original content posted in this subforum.

    Since this is supposed to be the area of advanced technical discussion the general assumption is that most posters will have at least a few years of grappling experience. Given that it seems to me to be pretty unavoidable that all posters will have at some point discarded techniques that they used early on.

    For example, in the gi, one of the main techniques that is used a fair bit by most beginners is the ezekiel choke (shown here by judo stud Koji Komuro). This is probably one of the first mount submissions most people get in the gi. However, it also is a submission that people first start defending well and from what I've seen it quickly drops out of favor about half-way to blue belt. BUT, this choke then pops up again at the higher ranks; for example Roger Gracie's run this year.

    In my opinion the reason for the disappearance and subsequent resurgence, which you'll see a lot inside schools, is because the development of the defense technique outpaces the offensive technical development. These abandoned "low percentage" techniques become high percentage again because of the offensive technical development, usually in details that were never taught or never remembered when the moves were first shown in a "basics" or "fundamental" class.

    The goal of this thread: Describe the techniques you abandoned at some point and the technical refinements and technical details that were important in you bringing them back into your game. These details should help with execution against solid opponents who have the basic defenses down.

    I'll start by trotting out something I wrote a year ago about a class I ran that is still applicable:

    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa View Post
    While basic, hip bumps and scissors are my top sweeps and really all I get on guys that are better than me too. With the hip bump there are a few things that I do that I've never seen stressed that I think help make it work for me. First is the grip. I basically start with a kimura grip but then switch the vining arm to their wrist. This leaves me with the open arm that I need to get up and to load my hips. The control on their arm is actually pretty solid though and gives a lot of leverage you don't have with standard grips. From the overhook the other thing I stressed, which I think a lot of guys do even if they don't realize it, is really think like you're doing an over shoulder roll. If you visualize it that way you drive their arm across, under and through your plane. This can actually, assuming your hip movement is good, can actually allow you to get some pretty good momentum on the sweep.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goju - Joe View Post
    Am I understanding this right?

    So you're in guard, grab his right wrist for example, your left arm comes over and around his right arm for the kimura grip, then your left arm grabs his wrist and you use your right to post up and drive your hips forward?
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa View Post
    You grab their left wrist with your right hand. Your left arm comes over to the kimura grip but instead of grabbing your own wrist you grab their left wrist.
  2. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2009 1:26pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Second hi per then low per and now hi (well, higher) percentage technique:

    Americana from top.
    The americana from side control is one of the first top submission people get comfortable with (and usually as a result find side control preferable for attacking than mount early on in part because they have a workable sub from there). Unfortunately most of us get pretty decent at defending the americana from side or mount (e.g. extend the arm up and then across your body). Less than a greater appreciation of technical details, I've had renewed success based on a pretty substantive modification that I learned from my coach quite awhile back but seem to be the only one using it.

    Starting on top (either side or mount but you'll be more vulnerable to bridging from the mount by the time you get to where the sub is close) underhook their head with your left arm. If you were going to do a standard americana you'd have to give up the underhook and grab their wrist. Instead you're going to grab their wrist while keeping the underhook. Normally you would now slide your arm under their's and grab your own wrist, instead you grab their wrist. So, you've underhooked their head and have both your hands on their wrist with their arm in a "branch up" position. Keep your right hand on their wrist (with a standard kimura/american grip) and switch your left hand to hooking their armpit. That's it. Now instead of dragging their arm down like normal drop your right shoulder and flare up your right elbow, taking their elbow off the ground like you're doing a bad americana. I've found that this is a lot tighter so be prepared for them to tap quickly.

    The main problem with this modified americana is that when done from the mount you're a little more off-balance although you'd think the head underhook would give you more control.



    This thread idea sucks without pics
  3. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2009 1:34pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fantastic concept for the thread, I'll try to contribute a technique. In the meantime: I've never been able to get a hip bump sweep without a kimura grip unless the other guy's just a complete newbie with a weak base. In which case, it's not even really a sweep as much as it is me rolling them over.

    As far as the Americana/Kimura attacks go, we've got a lockflow drill that goes from Americana, to straight out armbar (in response to that defense), to dragging the arm up and wedging it between the head and neck while controlling the guy's position with your knee on his face and exerting pressure with a gable gripped blade of the forearm against the back of the joint.

    Some of those are arguably much lower percentage responses to a well-defended arm from side control, but it's useful to know you've got options.
  4. Kentucky Fried Chokin is offline
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    Portrait of a BJJer as a Young Man

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2009 2:11pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When I went to Brazil, I was exposed to a lot of higher belts that I didn't have much access to in the US. The would be on top pf me and I would be trying to work my complex escapes and reversals. Then the instructor yelled at me 'Just Hip Escape!'. I thought, Hip Escape? That's what white belts do! But then I did it and viola! Back to guard I went. The hip escape never really becomes a low percentage technique, but I had to get my ass kicked to rediscover why it's part of every warm up.

    I actually had the a High/Low expirence with the ezekial. I always thought it was sort of a low percentage beginner move until I saw how one of the blue belts at my club used it. He didn't care at all that you had your hand up to defend it. He would slip his fingers right past your defending hand and squeeze your throat. I saw an even more extreme version of the same thing Brazil from a black belt that almost put me to sleep with it.
  5. MuKen is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2009 2:00pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa View Post
    For example, in the gi, one of the main techniques that is used a fair bit by most beginners is the ezekiel choke (shown here by judo stud Koji Komuro). This is probably one of the first mount submissions most people get in the gi. However, it also is a submission that people first start defending well and from what I've seen it quickly drops out of favor about half-way to blue belt. BUT, this choke then pops up again at the higher ranks; for example Roger Gracie's run this year.
    I'm a new blue, I never stopped using ezekiel. I stopped landing it a lot, but it's still always one of the main ways I begin my offense from mount. Go for it, then change up and try to pin their defending arm across their chest for the armbar or pass to rear, or to the mat for an americana.

    I've stopped using guillotines though. I think it is because there is another guy in our class that has some beastly guillotines, which has sharpened everyone else's guillotine defense. So it's become very low percentage for me.
  6. MaxThunderstone is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2009 5:36pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One of the first techniques I dropped after receiving proper training was the heel hook from butterfly guard which I used for crappling purposes. I picked it back up four years later.
  7. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/29/2009 5:56pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxThunderstone View Post
    One of the first techniques I dropped after receiving proper training was the heel hook from butterfly guard which I used for crappling purposes. I picked it back up four years later.
    What did your improved knowledge and greater experience contribute to your technical application of it?
  8. MaxThunderstone is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2009 6:15pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    After four years I finally understood the concept of shrimping. Shrimping before I ended up under mount really opened up my staggered butterfly and attacks from it.

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