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  1. Whacker is offline
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    Pulling mount since '09

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2009 1:33pm


     Style: jits da variedade brasile

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Disclaimer: I do not practice nor am I educated in/on Judo beyond knowing the word "Judo".


    I think the idea of getting it into schools is perfect. There was a thread a month or two ago discussing getting MMA into high school as a recognized, respected sport, which I thought was ridiculously good idea.

    The problem is we are fighting from a bad position against people like Senator McCain and Bob Reilly who want nothing more than to see MMA go the way of the dinosaurs, and we've got people like Brock Lesnar and Dana White not knowing when to shut the fucking hell up and have some tact and class once in a blue moon.

    If there's a ticket for MMA into the schools, Judo is probably going to be it. It's an old(er) system, well-established, respected and recognized in the Olympics, has very little striking involved, etc etc. Put some well respected public figures behind this, do a pilot program or two in a few places to prove it works and there's interest, and you've probably got a recipe for win.
  2. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/20/2009 1:45pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    tao.jonez,

    You have valid points but...

    Quote Originally Posted by tao.jonez View Post
    The fastest growing segment of the population that has interest in self defense and combat sports is the "MMA crowd". Go directly after them.

    ....

    I am looking at this from a consumer standpoint. The likely consumer of Judo is the young person that wants to "do what those fighters on TV do". This person and his parents look on the internet for a school near them. They find an affordable judo club - GREAT! But he looks at the judo club and sees an old-fashioned karate school where they wear those kimonos and belts and stuff, and all they do is toss each other around. What does this kid say? No way mom, that stuff doesn't work. I want an MMA school.
    I think your points are valid if you aim to an high school and older population. But imo a wider base is needed so you also have to make judo attractive to elementary school kids (and, of course, their parents). It seems to me MMA still has an image of "human cockfighting for tattoed roided meatheads" so the parents of pre/early teens are not going to enroll their kids in these kind of MMA oriented judo clubs.

    However, if the offer is an Olympic Sport with educational values like the ones Kano promoted, safe and with self defense aplicability I think a lot of parents would give it a try. This is how is offered in Europe and it works fine.
  3. Hesperus is offline
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    it's all vanity

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2009 2:40pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kano-Gracie

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quit using McCain as an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dana White
    I consider John McCain the guy who started the UFC. If it weren’t for McCain I wouldn’t be here right now. What people don’t understand about mixed martial arts and the UFC is, what [McCain] was saying to the old owners is that you cannot put on fights in states that aren’t sanctioned. It’s illegal. You can’t do it. You have to be sanctioned by an athletic commission, which we agreed with him on 100 percent. John McCain wasn’t saying this thing shouldn’t happen, or it shouldn’t be running. He was saying, if ‘You’re going to do it, it has to be sanctioned by an athletic commission.’ We agree.
  4. Joz is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2009 10:47pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some thoughts

    If you increase numbers you increase revenue Thus the answer to 2) is a successfull answer to 1)

    Getting programs into schools was mentioned already,
    http://www.usjf.com/public/7JrRankReqs1s090414.pdf this is the USJF junior rank sylabus. Comparing the minimum age for grades with the ages for elementary and middle school students in the US there is a match up. If you had a elementary school club kids could start age six, test for the yellow belt grades (both) that year, Orange belts (both) the next, then green 1, green 2, blue 1, blue 2, purple 1, purple 2 one grade per year for the next six years, don't just hand the kids a rank for their birthday make them earn it,. The timetable above is based on minimum age for grade only the best and most commited students should keep up with that track.

    TKD has the kids right now, we either need to go get them or possibly share them maybe start off offering "Yudo" classes at TKD Dojangs the kids register with your National body of choice, you fill empty space on the Dojangs schedule and the owner makes however many pieces of silver the market will bear but at least your getting acess to the kids. The drawback is the posibility that the host would try to mcdojang your program/pressure you to do so.
  5. Joz is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2009 11:32pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    Judo in schools is a good idea.

    And if USA judo team were winning medals in Olympics/World Championships like the wrestling team does it would help to attract more people to the art and increase fundraising.
    Chicken/egg scenario...

    Resources into Judo in schools (like wrestling)-> More Judoka = broader talent base -> greater and more consistent sucess....

    Putting resources into developing elite athletes in the hope that they will galvanize the public to do Judo isn't going to work...
  6. JudOWNED is offline
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    北斗十字固拳

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2009 6:02am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good stuff. Bitchslapper, go ahead with your Sambo thoughts. Part of what I think is that Judo/Judoka need to become a part of the wider grappling community, rather than only thinking about Judo/Olympic Shiai.

    For the record, I'm not sure USA Judo needs to start it's on no-gi division or change its competition format (other than increasing the quality of the reffing). But I see no reason why Judoka shouldn't be encouraged to compete in the other grappling comps that are alreay out there. That would increase the exposure of Judo and show it's overall usefullness to the rest of the grappling/mma community.

    Although to counter my own point, being an Olympic sport is HUGE. And US Judo orgs need to focus on producing US athletes that will do well in Olympic and other international competition. A Michael Phelps in Judo would do wonders for enrollment.

    Either way, I think a school based program is the way to go. Such prgrams could create future Olympians, but also spread Judo into other realms (grappling, MMA, etc.) as those kids move on to different things with their Judo background.
  7. MaxThunderstone is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2009 9:08am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Judo shouldn't expand the rule set much. A few tweaks to eliminate lame fouls, but this is one of those cases in which we need specialists.
  8. Lindz is online now

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2009 9:33am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FLMKane View Post
    Change the damn rules. Remove the dumb leg lock ban, remove or extend the time limit on the ground, make it the BJJ thrasher.
    In relation to this I said they should allow unorthodox grips. Banning techniques in competition because they're judo beaters only weakens judo as a fighting art. I guess that might have an impact on retention. But I can't see it making as much of an impact on recruitment.
  9. tao.jonez is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/21/2009 10:47am


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    With regards to the Olympics though, how many folks watch the Judo events? The equivalent of Badminton? Archery? Handball? I chose those not to disparage Judo, but to show that sports that aren't understood or popular don't just gain popularity through exposure. None of these events requires excessively expensive or hard to find equipment, and all of the athletes in these events are amazing at what they do. Just like Judo.

    There is no broad US fanbase to the events, so they aren't broadcast or they are difficult to find when they ARE televised. Therefore there is limited viewership, and Olympic exposure helps only marginally. The same applies to Judo I believe.

    I honestly believe that you have to increase the "cool factor" to bring up the profile of Judo at a grassroots level somehow. My initial set of ideas contained some far out ideas, but to move the bar a little you sometimes have to aim way off. Without changing the fundamentals of Judo competition then, what to do?

    Realistically, encouraging Judoka to compete in other events could help. I think Naga rules could be very workable for Judo. Takedowns and positional dominance on the ground are high scoring moves. These are the bread and butter of Judo. Ask some BJJ players, and I'd wager that they struggle taking a judoka down. So played properly you could fare very well consistently with judo at NAGA type events. That in itself would raise the profile of judo in the very demographic you are after - young competitive martial artists.

    And just like judo, grappling events are cheap and easy to find. Send judo representatives out to Hayustan, NAGA, etc. and show what you've already got.

    And DO add no-gi training. Not because it's practical, but just because I think no-gi is fun. No other reason.
  10. FLMKane is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2009 10:55am


     Style: Kyokushin

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bitchslapper View Post
    In relation to this I said they should allow unorthodox grips. Banning techniques in competition because they're judo beaters only weakens judo as a fighting art. I guess that might have an impact on retention. But I can't see it making as much of an impact on recruitment.
    Ah yes... like the lame ban on underhooks. Judo has the potential to become THE DEFINITIVE grappling art, if only it forgets tradition, and evolves. So far I've only seen the opposite. Still it is an excellent MA.
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