I heard that tae kwon do is pretty good.
I heard Pirate-jitsu is T3h D34ly
OP, I jumped on your post for 2 reasons.
1 - Wrong forum. This forum is dedicated to discussion about western martial arts not generic self defense questions.
2 - It was a poorly worded "What can I use to kick ass and not go to jail, he he he" post. Self defense can cover everything from situational awareness, verbal skills, the psychology of a fight or fighting skills. In a western martial arts sense things that work from a strictly fighting point of view include wrestling, boxing and modern combatives (Army or Marine Corps versions).
A better thought out question would have brought a more thoughtful reply.
BTW if you wish to remain here as poster you are going to need a thicker skin, I'm one of the nice guys.
It was actually just a bad day...my apologies. Thanx to everyone for the advice and ill be sure to apply some proper effort in choosing the right threads.
Originally Posted by M1K3
Originally Posted by dig7six
Yes they all are and no there is none.
Medieval fencing tick a lots of box but it is adapted for 15th century world and mindset.
In any case you need to understand that MA only covers application of force and that is only one of the components of SD.
That application of force is slanted towards a particular way of training and applying it. So you just need to understand the condition under witch you do what you do in you given MA/Combat Sport and make the per-equation with the condition on under which self defence situation will arise.
Now there is no magic bullet, doing Gracie BJJ, SAS combative, Medieval fencing, Boxing, karate, kali, hard-style aiki, combat shooting, RBSD is only going to get you that far. At the end of the day the size of the gun is nothing compared to you ability to place the bullet.
MA/SD/CS will only get you that far. If you have been around for a while, like some of us here you will have at least seen two iteration of the same circular carpy argument. Techniques then pressure testing then competition then it’s no like that in real life then technique.
We can really divide fighter in two type people who fight from an organised position to get a dominant position. Combat sport or MA competitions are the ultimate expression of that. (I.e. neutral unalterable environment)
And people that will manipulate the environment to get in a dominant position, the vast majority of SD customer will fall into that category
You need to train for SD the same way you train for Combat sport.
You do need body conditioning both in giving a receiving.
You need that pressure and situation testing because that what you need to be able to react in time. It is all well and good to say that you average SD customer is going to deceive/sneak his way up to you, but it does imply some ability to weather the strom.
You need to understand edged weapons and fire arms.
First and foremost, you do need to understand the law. Those points should be ultra clear, and really you should check with a lawyer.
Will there be a civil and legal action
When and what self defence is a legitimate defence in both courts.
What is a reasonable force and a reasonable man.
If you get that wrong ABH/assault is the least you can expect
If, what and when you can use and carry as weapon
And really you need to be happy with yourself walking away from a situation or even better a potential situation. You do not have any thing to prove to anyone especially yourself, personally I thin this is the hardest bit.
Have you looked into San Soo? This style of kung fu is not a tournament style and offers some good self defense training. In the class I was in, there was continue workouts and sparring. Several advanced students I met had divided skills from other MA styles. I asked why they signed up and they said to get another perspective on the art. The training is designed in more of a street/combat style and the sparring can get tough and injuries have occurred.
Originally Posted by dig7six
Again you could go to several different San Soo schools and check it out and introduce yourself to the master instructor and explain what you want to do and learn.
I also like the Ed Parker Kenpo system for self defense. There are others.
But in these forums, you will get many opinions, agreements and disagreements about what systems are better suited for self defense purposes. The school I signed up for was great and actually as a beginner I had no prior training, but the master gave a lot of one on one time to beginners. I learned some things in self defense at the first class. I also got injured, my fault for not listening to the rules and dropped out. And part of my injury was due to prior car accidents and disc damage. I have no blame to San Soo classes. I would have liked to continue, but I am way too old now and my body has had it physically anyway for tough sparring. But I really miss those times.
Here again though, I can only report my personal hands on experience. There is a style out there for anyone and although said before by others here, boxing in a good gym is invaluable to learn self defense tactics.
Btw, one of the first things taught in San Soo was, be aware of your surroundings, don't present yourself as a potential victim, walk and stand like a fighter, be prepared to fight and survive in 3-5 seconds if possible and only if attacked and cannot escape or talk your way out of a confrontation, fight in visualizations in the mind but learn to apply the mental by doing the hard work it takes physically, work with good sparring partners, and numerous other points too vast to list.
Last edited by nitekatt2010; 9/03/2009 9:22pm at .
that is a good question. especialy because knowing selfdefense and knowing how to fight can be two diffrent things. the problem is most people who need self defense cant afford it. people in poor bad places (not to sound steriotypical). Most people who do self defense are rich kids in nice places where youll probably never get attacked so how do they know if their training actualy worked. the people who made kung fu, karate ect.. were people who needed to defend themselves to survive. so they were getting attacked regularly. they found the techniques that worked and didnt add any of that fancy crap that doesnt work. but the problem is martial arts have been altered all throughout history and when those shalion monks didnt need to do kung fu anymore the martial art was altered into what it is today which for the most part is competition. but for self defense situations in most martial arts they added techniques that havent been tested through time. the thing is martial arts are only effected in the situations they were made for. so if your doing ninjustu and your not in feudal japan 800 years ago your probably not getting alot out of it. but 800 years ago ninjustu was an excelent way for ninjas to assassassinate samari.
another thing is you have to be training to actually defened yourself. what does that mean? well the problem today is a lot of martial arts have been watered down. that budo tia justu place up the street from me is a perfect example of this. martial arts have been wussified throughout the years to acommidate the six year olds that want to do them. people their train so lightly so no one gets hurt. your not training there to learn how to protect yourself but to give the instructers money and to get a blackbelt. if the instructers train you hard enouph and make sure your not making any mistakes and the people put a little resistance when your trying to take your partner to the ground then both the attacker and the defender will become more prepared for the streets and then and only then are you actually training to defend yourself.
the problem is a lot of self defense system have tried to make their system so friendly to every one they have lost sense of what its really about and turned it into just a recreational activitey and not a means for survival. self defense was made to be dangerous and alot people are trying to get rid of that aspect. not saying you shouldnt train safe.
if you have those elements i was talking about then i believe it would be affected. personaly i believe gjj im doing is affective but i mainly did it for sport ( idont go to one of those gjj places where they only focus on self defense)
yes BJJ is effective, like all combat sport, it gives you a very good level of fitness and physical attribute to make it work.
Originally Posted by lmark09
given you average SD customer, it is going to be more than enough.
The only thing i think is needed, if you do not do it already
is train in assymetric situation, ie several opponents, and weapons. you can use RBSD scenario as a starting point.
the same applies to HEMA,sure the mediaval idea of a fair fight is turning up with more people better weapon better armour and if possible when the opposition do not expect you, however slicing up people you do not know because they got too close was perfectly acceptable.
and nowadays doing either with get us staright to jail without passing go.
You could always use that Olde English standard default setting: "Windmilling". I used to see it regularly when I played football as a kid and later in the pub. The Golden Rule was to ask, "D'you do Boxing?" If the answer was in the negative, you could safely (fairly, safely) start Windmilling - as neither of you really had a clue on how to fight.
Originally Posted by dig7six
Taking this as your lead, you could then take up boxing proper and be, say, "The Whitechapel Windmill" [Jackie 'Kid' Berg] or "The Philadelphia Windmill" [Harry Greb - the only man to defeat Gene Tunney].
The difference? Well, the last 2 really knew their stuff. Tangle at your peril.
Western styles that are good for selfdefense, especially vs striking attacks?
Boxing and kickboxing/savate are obvious answers but as a selfdefense situation rarely entails a fair fight between well matched opponents duking it out with bigger or several opponents might be a bad idea.
Krav would be considered Western, right? Eye gouging and groin shots coupled with hefty sprint will save you in many instances. But I've seen shitty Krav and I've seen good Krav. The difference is usually the level of sparring in training.
Wrestling in all its shapes and forms, most countries have their own flavour, are good for staying on your feet, dumping your opponent on his head and then legging it out of there.
But IMHO a non-Western art is the best for the average person:
Judo. Learn to stay on your feet, learn to throw, learn basic subs and great ground control. Should be compulsory for doormen, police, security guards etc worldwide.