Crucifix ins and outs

**Kintanon** · Posted On: 8/18/2009 11:07am

Ok, this is not "How do Crucifix" or any such stupidity. I know the basics of the position and am interested in getting some expanded knowledge of it. It's not part of what we normally do in class so I've chosen not to interrupt the curriculum with my shenanigans and am instead asking this here.

I have occasionally found myself taking someones back and being unable to dig my hands in for a choke, or effectively drive my hooks in. One of my solutions has been to stick my foot up in front of my opponent and let them grab it, then trap it with my legs and hook their other arm with my arms to set up the crucifix position. From there if I have their right arm I will hug it with my right arm and dig for their wrist with my left to setup the Kimura from crucifix. This approach has worked a few times, though if I'm not careful I get dumped and end up under side control.
My questions are as follows:
What are some tips to avoid getting dumped while still being able to attack?

What is the best way to trap the arm I'm not attacking? I currently triangle my legs around it, but I have also tried grapevining it and just crossing my ankles and squeezing with various results.

Are there any other subs I can look for from the Crucifix?

Are there any reliable ways to get TO the crucifix without having someones back?

Is this line of thought even profitable? I currently am interested in it because in Gi I have a very hard time getting chokes from the back because of all of the cloth. I try to dig my hand in and grab the collar, or work my forearm across and frequently end up grabbing the wrong thing or just getting bound up in the Gi. I would like to add a few more options from the back and since I've had success with this in the past I'm interested in expanding the Crucifix into one of my main positions.

**Zapruder** · Posted On: 8/18/2009 1:05pm

On a short post, other options would include:

Hell strangle http://judoinfo.com/images/shime/jigoku_jime.gif

Reverse omo: YouTube - Cole Miller demonstrates the reverse omoplata on Joanne of MMA Girls

MY FAV!!! "bow and arrow" YouTube - bjj bow and arrow choke

Hell strangle keeps you in the crucifix position, and you can work one of Coach Joshs favorite attack combo...*cough GET IN HERE JOSH!!!* cough it is an armbar triangle choke combo.

**Zapruder** · Posted On: 8/18/2009 1:15pm

On a short post, other options would include:

Hell strangle http://judoinfo.com/images/shime/jigoku_jime.gif

Reverse omo: YouTube - Cole Miller demonstrates the reverse omoplata on Joanne of MMA Girls

MY FAV!!! "bow and arrow" YouTube - bjj bow and arrow choke

Hell strangle keeps you in the crucifix position, and you can work one of Coach Joshs favorite attack combo...*cough GET IN HERE JOSH!!!* cough it is an armbar triangle choke combo.

**Ryno** · Posted On: 8/18/2009 4:59pm

The bow and arrow is a hell strangle variation. (And the most common one, from how I was taught.) It is a vicious choke, and hits really hard. I'll hit it off of attacking a high turtle by getting grip, stepping over to ride cowboy style, grip pant, roll and hook far side arm with leg. He'll be tapping probably before he even gets turned over all the way.

Since you may not end up with the close side arm controlled, it might not technically be a crucifix. But whatever. It's a badass choke, and turns the lights out really quick.

**Kentucky Fried Chokin** · Posted On: 8/18/2009 5:17pm

I really like the bow and arrow choke too, but I find it more effective for little guys if you stick you knee inside the arm choking him and extending with it rather than just pulling with your arm.

**danno** · Posted On: 8/19/2009 1:36am

i remember starting a thread about options from the crucifix a few years ago.

for me, the best part is when people stop thinking about their necks.

watch this at around 4:22 and 6:20

YouTube - ã€ŒCombat Wrestlingã€ã€Œäº”å‘³éš†å…¸ã€ Takanori Gomi 1/2

i used to set it up like this:

Originally Posted by Kintanon

One of my solutions has been to stick my foot up in front of my opponent and let them grab it, then trap it with my legs and hook their other arm with my arms to set up the crucifix position.

but people catch on pretty quick once you tap them with it.

**Kintanon** · Posted On: 8/19/2009 11:03am

I like the choke transition in No-Gi, I've had a harder time with it in Gi.
Once people caught on to the "Grab my foot" setup did you ever find any other good ways to set up the crucifix?
I'm going to play with it tonight at class and see what I can come up with.

**Kentucky Fried Chokin** · Posted On: 8/19/2009 1:38pm

As a little side note, there is an armbar there too when they grab the leg. If you're on top, straighten their arm by triangling their legs, and drop your weight into the back of the elbow. I usually go for that first, and if I miss, I go for the crucifix and choke.

**Kintanon** · Posted On: 8/19/2009 4:39pm

I like that armbar but I've been super unreliable getting it. We actually went over that one in class a month or so ago, which is when I started messing around with the crucifix.
My main problem trying it is that I have a hard time forcing the arm straight since post people tuck it in pretty tight right away. I'm about to go to class, gonna try to be super aggressive since I'm getting ready for NAGA and gonna specifically work to get peoples backs and finish from crucifix in one way or another.

**danno** · Posted On: 8/19/2009 8:28pm

Originally Posted by Kintanon

I like the choke transition in No-Gi, I've had a harder time with it in Gi.
Once people caught on to the "Grab my foot" setup did you ever find any other good ways to set up the crucifix?
I'm going to play with it tonight at class and see what I can come up with.

i generally leave my foot out there as bait by default in that position now. but since they don't take it, it's more of an opportunistic position for me. it's tricky to force on people who don't want it, and i haven't developed any other really effective setups. perhaps closest thing i've got is scooping an arm with my leg when the moment is right.

couple of tips - in my opinion, it's worse to lose the arm trapped in your legs than the other one. you'll end up in a worse position. so make sure the control you have with your legs is tight. i lost a BJJ match that way when i was about 10 points up.

to stop them dumping you over their head, lean away from their head, towards their hips. if you're over their shoulders you'll lose the position.

control their arms more above the elbow if you can, closer to the shoulder on both sides. make it tight, give them less room to wriggle out.

oh, and look in to setting up some gi chokes from there. i've got a couple i might try to explain later.

sometimes it's better to forget about the crucifix from there and go for a clock choke or something too.