Crosstraining and Excellence

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 8/13/2009 10:41am

The GSP model of MMA training (world class training in each art/sport) has a lot of appeal, but many recent fights, for example Anderson's recent performance against Griffin, have made me wonder if it is possible to reach one's potential in a sport without actually competing in it at a high level. The "best training money can buy" may only take you so far if you haven't been in the mix with world class competition in a particular CS.

This is less of a problem in groundfighting sports, as a great number of wrestlers, Judoka, SAMBO players and BJJ guys in MMA are active or former competitors at the national and world level. In striking its a different story. It is possible that one can train with master Toddy 30 hours a week for 5 years and never be as good as your less experienced gym mate who actually takes MT rules fights at a high level.

Look at the highly refined striking displayed by folks like Mirko, Mo Smith, Bang, Pat Barry, Cung, Bas, etc. and ask yourself if anyone has trained themselves up to that level just by training and sparring. Do y'all think fighting at a high level is necessary to execute at the highest level? If so it points to a possible different model for training MMA than is currently popular.

**Res Judicata** · Posted On: 8/13/2009 12:09pm

Did Anderson Silva ever compete at a high level in MT? I know he had a couple of pro boxing fights against no one of substance. I've never seen an MT record for him.

**bgeezy69** · Posted On: 8/13/2009 12:16pm

There is mention of a "Muay Thai Dream Team" on Silva's official site. But there is no mention of any muay thai fights. Just PRIDE, Mecca (in Brazil), and Cage Rage. Here is the page for everyone's reference:http://www.spidersilva.com/profile

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 8/13/2009 1:11pm

YouTube - Anderson Silva Muay Thai Match

I found this elsewhere

Pele and Anderson entered twice Curitiba's "Thai Gym tournament and they ended up in the finals twice. Each time, Pele knocked Anderson out. Source : Pele interview in french magazine KUMITE.

Also, Pele used to knock-out everybody in Chute Boxe during hard core sparring sessions (no protections and pulling no punches). Fact acknowledged by Wanderlei and Ninja in Pele's vignettes presentation in Japanese edition DVD of PRIDE 14 & PRIDE 19 and by Anderson, Assuerio and Rodrigo Vidal in interviews for TATAME.

While you're scratching your head wondering who Anderson has fought (MT) and what his record is, ask yourself the same questions about Mark DellaGrotte.

Not saying Mark isn't a great trainer, just that we tend to be overly lax (IMO) in asking for people's MT records.

**Res Judicata** · Posted On: 8/13/2009 1:30pm

Isn't AS the counterargument to your thesis? He hasn't really competed at the highest level of MT, but if he hasn't reached his potential ... He's not like the guys who came in from K-1 with extensive pro records.

DellaGrotte says he has less than 10 fights. I don't think you need to be a great athlete or competitor to be great coach. Freddie Roach was journeyman boxer, but he's a great coach.

**Hesperus** · Posted On: 8/13/2009 1:38pm

I do think striking is finally finishing the catching up game it's been playing since the Royce days. What Silva did to Forrest is not beyond what a good pro boxer would do, should not be devoid of skill at every other range.

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 8/13/2009 1:49pm

Imagine the havok Orlando Weit with a BJJ BB could wreak at 185.

**selfcritical** · Posted On: 8/13/2009 2:32pm

I think sparring with high-level guys on a consistent basis does do quite a bit to generate the level of skill. Otherwise it would be obvious that Koscheck would outwrestle GSP

**madrigan** · Posted On: 8/13/2009 3:17pm

Originally Posted by Hesperus

...should not be devoid of skill at every other range.

I'm not clear on what this means.

**Kentucky Fried Chokin** · Posted On: 8/13/2009 3:20pm

Or guys like GSP and Silva are just freaks who's accomplishments will never be matched by anyone other than more freaks, and they should be disected and studied in labs.