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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2009 1:12am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by u1ysses View Post
    I agree w/ It Is Fake about the fact that as you state it, your ki position is not falsifiable in a scientific sense, but perhaps the demonstration could be attempted in a way that would satisfy both sides? For this to happen, you would have to provide a specific case in which a certain outcome would not be possible without ki playing a role, and which would therefore make a demonstration fail w/o it.

    It would have to be shown to also work against a non-compliant skeptic, with a legitimate martial background.

    It would have to involve ki alone (ie, some sleight of hand or psychological trick would have to be ruled out).

    It would have to avoid ambiguous, incomparable circumstances that involve internal states (ie, someone using ki to make a blow hurt them less than a person without it would fail this requirement).

    Can you propose a scenario like this where you would consent to have your claims tested?
    You don't understand my point. It can't be done. There is no scientific set up, that can be created, because of a very important sentence you are over looking.



    The Ki does not make a practioner a superman it provides another option of dealing with a punch and kick. Yes we can be rocked in a fight as well. But, it is alot harder to do so.
    This can never be met as anything stated negatively can be refuted.
  2. harr is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2009 1:21am


     Style: kempo and jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Alright Gentlemen, I will post my rank and then i am moving on from all of this. It does not seem to be going anywhere. So I will post the rank and i will do it!!!
  3. u1ysses is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2009 2:07am


     Style: Judo, BJJ, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, I saw that bit was completely out of the realm of being checked - I was trying to see if he would provide a separate use of ki that would meet falsifiability, since he seemed at least willing to be tested. No dice though.
  4. harr is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2009 2:22am


     Style: kempo and jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Your statement is incorrect, I will be willing to test. However as you said it must be unbiased and fair. You will find that I am very flexiable in trying to share this Ki experience with you guys. I am no fraud at any level and when i provide my diplomas an apology for all this non-sense would be nice. Although I doubt I will get one!
  5. u1ysses is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2009 2:28am


     Style: Judo, BJJ, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But first it has to be test-able. It can't be a slight alteration of a subjective state: ie, somewhat harder to rock, easier to carry out. That's not something you can test.
  6. harr is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2009 3:12am


     Style: kempo and jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I must disagree! If we look at a foundation like the james randi foundation we may be able to create a compromise and actually shed some light on this subject matter. Explore the rulers of James Randi foundation and we can start from there.
  7. creativo is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2009 4:49am


     Style: Judofitness

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Great ukemi?

    I'm no Soke so I understand my opinion has little /weight/ compared to yours, but that claim is just ridiculous.

    I'll limit myself to the forward falling.
    They don't protect the head, the arm is bent when rolling forward legs and feet are crooked and dead. Shattered knee if on hard surface since it rolls at a sharp angle against the mat. Knees clicking against each other on impact, and the slap is angled badly. You can see the shockwave on their heads, all tensed up. That's horrible ukemi and you should go learn judo, as you won't find people awarding you Sokeship in it so easily.
  8. jwinch2 is online now

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2009 8:17am


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by harr View Post
    I dont know that I alone can satisfy all these thingsa you ask for. However, if many of us put our heads to work. i think we could figure it out. And yes, i will provide all the rank certificates on my site just for you guys. Then Im done with all of this. No I never made the claim to be a professionaL IN MEDICINE OR ANYTHING OF THIS NATURE. I said that Dr. James Tinnell was going to work with me in the life extension area of the once to be operation. He decided to decline. I was going to refer clients to him and he was going to run the blood panels and prescribe hormones if needed.
    The problem here is that you claimed that you had the training when you didn't! You made a decision about what to post on your website and don't blame it on your webmaster. I don't put things on my bio that I haven't done yet. You could have written something along the lines of "in progress" or "training to take place Sep. 2009" but you didn't. You claimed you had already done it. THAT, is the problem, which you seem unable to recognize.

    In addition, your certifications through an organization that hands out certifications through the mail and which requires no formal study and/or expertise in order to be credentialed are worthless. They are not worthless because the organization is no longer in business. They were worthless to begin with because it was nothing more than a certification mill.

    This certification mill (of which there are dozens and dozens in the fitness industry) was owned by a person that had a judgement against her by the State of Ohio for not registering with the State Board of Colleges and Schools, as she was required to by Ohio law. Thus she was not legally able to provide certifications in the first place. Not to mention the fact that the likelihood of her having the expertise to properly design a certification curriculum in all of those areas is next to nil. As the organization is defunct for legal reasons, the website is no longer active and her bio seems to be unavailable.

    It also appears that this the same Joyce Forte who lost a lawsuit by a prison inmate for failing to provide the certifications that he paid for while he was in prison? Its bad enough that the piece of paper is meaningless but she didn't even give it to him when he paid for it. As a result of this, she was forced to cease doing business in the State of Ohio and the business went under.

    Properly designed fitness and nutrition certifications (of which there are very very few) go through an accredidation process and have teams of experts who can provide insight on current state of the body of evidence to ensure that the certification is providing evidence based practice. In addition, properly run certifications hire outside statistics and metrics agencies to properly track the validity and reliability of the questions that being used and manage the structure of the exam to ensure that it is a reliable instrument. That certification provided none of those safe guards and only increases the worthlessness of the paper provided to those who were crazy enough to think that was a reputable organization. I don't think you were one of those however, I think you simply did not care whether or not it was reputable, you likely just wanted the credential.

    None of this even addresses all the cult creation B.S. that you have all over your website.
    Last edited by jwinch2; 8/18/2009 8:49am at .
  9. Lysol is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2009 8:26am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by harr View Post
    I said that Dr. James Tinnell was going to work with me in the life extension area of the once to be operation. He decided to decline. I was going to refer clients to him and he was going to run the blood panels and prescribe hormones if needed.
    BUT YOU STILL CLAIMED EXPERTISE ON YOUR WEBSITE UNTIL YESTERDAY! That is the problem I have. I don't give a **** that you never claimed to be a doctor. I don't give a **** that you only planned on refering clients to a real doctor. None of that gives you the right to have ever claimed on your website that you were an expert in that area. That is fraud, plain and simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by harr View Post
    I do not consider my certificates from a paper mill as you call it. However, if i am going to provide that particular service for someone i wouild like to have a open organization behind me and the work i provide. I think that is honesty and looking out for the customer.
    Do you really expect me to believe this? If you were honest and really cared about the customer, then why didn't you get involved with a new organization immediately after your old one went under? Why did you wait until you were under investigation by different internet forums to start looking for a new organization?

    Quote Originally Posted by harr View Post
    As far as ukemi goes, My guys have some of the best ukemi around. I have seen all the judo and akido ukemi and some is good and some not. Our happens to be very good ukemi...i believe that is why you do not like it.
    :icon_roll

    Humor me, what are you basing that post on, especially after reading creativo's post?
  10. Lysol is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2009 8:56am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by harr View Post
    I do not consider my certificates from a paper mill as you call it.
    Oh really? Dude, we've seen this 10,000x before, did you really think you'd fool us? Let's look at the National Academy for Health and Fitness and Joyce Forte:

    http://vlex.com/vid/perdue-state-car...hools-35301366

    http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/do...-Ohio-7187.pdf

    These are the lawsuits that jwinch2 was refering to. Forte sold rank to anyone who could pay the fee. The lawsuit involving the State of Ohio deals with her "Academy" not registering with the State Board of Colleges and Schools, as she was required to by Ohio law, making it illegal for her to provide certifications.

    The second shows that yes, this is the same Joyce Forte who was involved in a lawsuit by a prison inmate for failing to provide the certifications that he paid for while he was in prison. The Academy is mentioned by name in the link provided. However, she did not lose, because the courts ruled that since she was not in the position to issue anyone rank, her certificates were worthless to begin with.

    The problem with diploma mills is that the only people who gain rank from them are not legit in the first place. What makes it worse is that getting a legit rank in nutrition is so damn easy in the first place! Most universities offer nutrition as a major. For that matter, there are plenty of community colleges offering credits in nutrition. Hell, many fitness certification groups even offer certification after six weeks of studying and attending seminars (The American College of Sports Medicine, for example). So to buy a diploma mill certificate for expertise in nutrition is just sickening. It's especially sickening that this comes from a guy who JUST GOT DONE saying he believed in honesty and looking out for the customer. People who believe in EITHER of those things stay the hell away from diploma mills.

    Now that we've established that you bought your "rank" in nutrition, we're now going to check to see what other ranks you've purchased and/or faked. As I've said before, just come clean now if there's anything else you're hiding and there won't be problems.
    Last edited by Lysol; 8/18/2009 9:14am at .
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